: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:10 pm  

Dave T wrote:

Last point, as we clearly don;t agree on this point, which is fair enough, my figures were based on sales from the RFL. They have been selling these tickets for the last 6 months, so there may be some from there already gone. Somebody on here recknoed that Widnes had 3,900 sold due to this.

Guess work and I think it’s unlikely that 200 Widnes supporters would’ve bought x9’s tickets. I’d say 50 at most. I don’t care how long they’ve been selling them, this tournament is not popular with most of the fans in the lower leagues, which don’t number many anyway.

Dave T wrote:

Aside from the ticketing issue, I'm really not sure why people are so upset by the 9's tournament.

Because it’s not regarded as worthwhile, and is a needless, risky distraction, by most. It’s all very well SL fan’s, who are not affected in any way, patronising us and telling us how wonderful the RFL’s hair brained schemes are, and how we shouldn’t be moaning about it, but thinking of the good of the game. But, if the RFL did this at SL level, there’d be a f*cking shitstorm on these boards. But the RFL know that the SL clubs have the power to tell them to f*ck off. Sadly they can walk all over us with complete impunity and do what they want.

When do you think the bonus point will be introduced to SL?

Dave T wrote:

If people don't want to go, don't go. Like I said earlier, it was going to get me to go, and I will be going to the Floodlit 9's, which clubs are signing up to voluntarily, so it would surprise me if everybody hates it and they have all been forced.

You are starting to get the idea now though. People can, and will, vote with their feet. Which is why the RFL should give the fans of the NRC finalists priority, to ensure the biggest crowd possible on the day.

How would you like it if the RFL held this competition during your own CC semi with Wigan? With over 2,000 tickets put aside for fans who probably will only amount to 200/300, which would deprive 1,700 Wire and Wigan fans a chance to go. If fans from the x9’s tournament want to go, they should’ve been asked to purchase tickets up front. The RFL have f*cked up big time now by promising everyone who goes to the x9’s the option to upgrade their tickets for the Sunday if they wish. So they now have to ensure there’s more than enough tickets available, thus ensuring a vast swath of empty seats where there could’ve been none.

Brewery couldn't a in pissup a organise

: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:38 pm  

Pepe wrote:

How would you like it if the RFL held this competition during your own CC semi with Wigan? With over 2,000 tickets put aside for fans who probably will only amount to 200/300, which would deprive 1,700 Wire and Wigan fans a chance to go. If fans from the x9’s tournament want to go, they should’ve been asked to purchase tickets up front. The RFL have f*cked up big time now by promising everyone who goes to the x9’s the option to upgrade their tickets for the Sunday if they wish. So they now have to ensure there’s more than enough tickets available, thus ensuring a vast swath of empty seats where there could’ve been none.

Brewery couldn't a in pissup a organise

As far as I am aware Wire and Wigan have been given around 5,700 tickets each, meaning that there are 3k extra seats somehwere (isn't the capacity 14,500 - I may have that wrong). At the semi not even the regulars have been able to get tickets. At your final, all the regulars have been able to get a ticket.

Interestingly there is a news piece on ITV text saying that this game is due to sell out for the first tim ever. Now considering you reckon Widnes took around 5k last time, and the RFL have now given you 1k less, yet they are still confident of selling it out, I'm not sure how that works that the RFL can't organise anything. It suggests they have done something right here.

Unfortunately their plan doesn't involve your armchair fans.

Out of interest, does anybody have any idea how many are on the waiting list at Widnes? I assume you have your tickets Pepe? I haven;t seen any big threads on here with hundreds of fans not being able to get tickets.

: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:17 pm  

Was slightly different kettle of fish in 2007, we had about 5500-6k I'd hazzard a guess at. Haven brought probably, 1200 max, and with no intervention from the rfl (9's tournament) also. Can't actually remember the figure but seemed full apart from the 50 metre mark on the main stand side.

Think it is a bit of a sham they way the rfl have gone about things to be quite truthful, but I am not going to grumble too much as I was successful with my ticket purchase, although it better not f**king rain, we are uncovered at the side.

As for the W**e love in, come on gents, get a grip.
Although saying that, I am undecided as to who I want to lose the semi, I find it ridiculously difficult to ever want Wigan to win a match. If it were a league game, although it pains me to say, I'd probably want Wires to win.

: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:21 pm  

Wigan any day over wires.

: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:51 pm  

Dave T wrote:

As far as I am aware Wire and Wigan have been given around 5,700 tickets each, meaning that there are 3k extra seats somehwere (isn't the capacity 14,500 - I may have that wrong). At the semi not even the regulars have been able to get tickets. At your final, all the regulars have been able to get a ticket.

Christ, this is like pulling f*cking teeth!!!

The Wigan/Wire situation is totally different. This is why I used the Championship x9’s competition being played at The Stobart, rather than simply talking about each clubs’ ticket allocation. The Stobart holds 13,350. Take away the 11, 400 allocated to fans, and you end up with 1,950. These will go to the usual sponsors guests and RFL officialdom and will guarantee a full house. That's fair enough imo.

The x9‘s competition, and it’s uptake for the Sunday final is a totally different thing, as it is an unknown quantity; unlike the situation at the CC semi-final at the Stobart. Despite how confident the RFL are of filling the place, allocating 2,400 tickets for this is totally unrealistic.

Dave T wrote:

Unfortunately their plan doesn't involve your armchair fans.

What do you mean by regular? Is there a figure you have in your head with a cut off point? Do you think that crowds involving several thousand people is not fluid with some attending at different times to each other, thus making the floating support base larger than the average?

As I have already pointed out to you, we have had several gates of 4,000 and 5,000. Do these people not count in your equation?

I would suggest if there is a possibility that tickets will go unsold, these people should be a priority.

Dave T wrote:

Interestingly there is a news piece on ITV text saying that this game is due to sell out for the first tim ever. Now considering you reckon Widnes took around 5k last time, and the RFL have now given you 1k less, yet they are still confident of selling it out, I'm not sure how that works that the RFL can't organise anything. It suggests they have done something right here.

I normally check the ITV teletext and I haven’t seen that. Not that it matters. The RFL have been confident about many things and haven’t delivered in the past. They just make excuses or move goal posts.

Dave T wrote:

Out of interest, does anybody have any idea how many are on the waiting list at Widnes? I assume you have your tickets Pepe? I haven;t seen any big threads on here with hundreds of fans not being able to get tickets.

I’m a Season Ticket holder and got my tickets on the first day of sale. The Widnes fans do not use these boards in any great numbers. The TIW site has around 1,000 users, and there is a thread with people looking for tickets on there. I was also told that the club are still receiving calls and e-mails for tickets and have to turn them down. I believe it is possible the RFL may release some more at a later date.

I know several people who cannot get a ticket, some of them ST holders. Because the game is on a Sunday, some fans have to take family members with them, who are not ST holders, therefore had to hold off buying tickets until they went on general sale and when they could get down to pick them up. As they sold out in a week, many have now missed out. It seems to be a common theme, for some supporters. This has never been a problem in the past, and has only arisen due to the x9’s competition.

: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:54 pm  

aye there was none of this mallarky last time we were in the final, and what a following we took!

: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:04 pm  

Pepe wrote:

Christ, this is like pulling f*cking teeth!!!

The Wigan/Wire situation is totally different. This is why I used the Championship x9’s competition being played at The Stobart, rather than simply talking about each clubs’ ticket allocation. The Stobart holds 13,350. Take away the 11, 400 allocated to fans, and you end up with 1,950. These will go to the usual sponsors guests and RFL officialdom and will guarantee a full house. That's fair enough imo.

The x9‘s competition, and it’s uptake for the Sunday final is a totally different thing, as it is an unknown quantity; unlike the situation at the CC semi-final at the Stobart. Despite how confident the RFL are of filling the place, allocating 2,400 tickets for this is totally unrealistic.



What do you mean by regular? Is there a figure you have in your head with a cut off point? Do you think that crowds involving several thousand people is not fluid with some attending at different times to each other, thus making the floating support base larger than the average?

As I have already pointed out to you, we have had several gates of 4,000 and 5,000. Do these people not count in your equation?

I would suggest if there is a possibility that tickets will go unsold, these people should be a priority.


I normally check the ITV teletext and I haven’t seen that. Not that it matters. The RFL have been confident about many things and haven’t delivered in the past. They just make excuses or move goal posts.


I’m a Season Ticket holder and got my tickets on the first day of sale. The Widnes fans do not use these boards in any great numbers. The TIW site has around 1,000 users, and there is a thread with people looking for tickets on there. I was also told that the club are still receiving calls and e-mails for tickets and have to turn them down. I believe it is possible the RFL may release some more at a later date.

I know several people who cannot get a ticket, some of them ST holders. Because the game is on a Sunday, some fans have to take family members with them, who are not ST holders, therefore had to hold off buying tickets until they went on general sale and when they could get down to pick them up. As they sold out in a week, many have now missed out. It seems to be a common theme, for some supporters. This has never been a problem in the past, and has only arisen due to the x9’s competition.

You are right, this is like pulling teeth.

So for the semi there will be just less than 2k for sponsors etc and that's fair enough. Didn;t you say earlier in this thread that that was too many for the Blackpool game?

The fact is that people always kick off over things like this and actually I would put money on the fact that there wouldn't be that many people missing out on tickets. Just like I have a few people I could take to the semi, they aren't that bothered and are casual fans rather than regular fans.

All of your season ticket holders will have theirs (if they want them) and most of your regular attendees will have theirs. I'm not sure exactly who is missing out.

Don't forget there was a real risk that it could have been Halifax versus somebody like Gateshead for this game, where the crowd could have been 5k. The RFL have taken action to ensure a full house, or as near as possible, and they still get criticised because people who don;t normally attend may not be able to get tickets.

It is pretty much a certainty that the vast majority of fans who wanted tickets, got tickets. I note that they didn't all sell out on the day they were released.

The piece about the NR Final heading for a sellout is also on the Widnes site now and explains a little more about the arrangements. It suggests that there will be a few available on the day, and says that they have held tickets back for the four finalists, however I do not expect this to total a couple of thousand.

: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:26 pm  

Dave T wrote:

You are right, this is like pulling teeth.

So for the semi there will be just less than 2k for sponsors etc and that's fair enough. Didn;t you say earlier in this thread that that was too many for the Blackpool game?

Sponsorship of major events between SL clubs and Championship clubs are two different things. The attraction is not there and sponsors are few and far between in comparison. Therefore over 2,000 tickets allocated to sponsors would not be necessary. I’ve been to one of these NRC finals before and the sponsor’s area was faaaar from full. If the sponsors could fill 2,000 seats, then it would indeed be fair enough. As this has not actually happened, EVER, most of the tickets should be made available to the supporters of the two clubs playing in the final, whether or not you think they deserve to be there.

Dave T wrote:

The fact is that people always kick off over things like this and actually I would put money on the fact that there wouldn't be that many people missing out on tickets. Just like I have a few people I could take to the semi, they aren't that bothered and are casual fans rather than regular fans.

That would depend on your definition of: Many and what you regard as regular fans and why they deserve to be knocked back for tickets which may not end up being sold.

Dave T wrote:

All of your season ticket holders will have theirs (if they want them) and most of your regular attendees will have theirs. I'm not sure exactly who is missing out.

I’ve already explained that, for various reasons, this is not the case. You’ve either not read my posts properly or chose to ignore it.

Dave T wrote:

Don't forget there was a real risk that it could have been Halifax versus somebody like Gateshead for this game, where the crowd could have been 5k. The RFL have taken action to ensure a full house, or as near as possible, and they still get criticised because people who don;t normally attend may not be able to get tickets.

They could’ve done this whole thing differently and given priority to the fans of the finalists and still allocated tickets for the x9’s competition.

Simples

Dave T wrote:

It is pretty much a certainty that the vast majority of fans who wanted tickets, got tickets. I note that they didn't all sell out on the day they were released.

I’ve never agued any different. My argument has always been that some fans will miss out needlessly. Even though it’s a minority, it still seems wrong to me. The main attraction is the NRC final, not the x9’s. That should mean all the fan’s of the two teams competing in it get priority imo.

Dave T wrote:

The piece about the NR Final heading for a sellout is also on the Widnes site now and explains a little more about the arrangements. It suggests that there will be a few available on the day, and says that they have held tickets back for the four finalists, however I do not expect this to total a couple of thousand

I’ve no idea how you can know just how many x9’s tickets have been,or will be, upgraded. The fact they can’t even give a figure of how many are likely to be available on the day, means the RFL probably don’t know either. It’s not a good position for any fan to be in, having to travel all the way to Blackpool without even knowing if they’ll be able to get a ticket, or which part of the ground they will be sat.

TRFLCRAPUIAB

: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:47 pm  

Pepe wrote:

That would depend on your definition of: Many and what you regard as regular fans and why they deserve to be knocked back for tickets which may not end up being sold.

I'm not saying anybody deserves to be knocked back, but the RFL have given your club enough tickets to cover your regular fans. No doubt you will quote the couple of games over 5k again, yet you don't quote the low attendances you have had this year. I saw one that was less then 2k not so long ago, although that one may have been wrong.

They could’ve done this whole thing differently and given priority to the fans of the finalists and still allocated tickets for the x9’s competition.

They have done exactly that. How do you know how many they have held back for the 9's? You don't. For all we know, the sponsorship deal with Northern Rail and Co-Op as well as other partners may mean that a good portion of tickets not allocated to the clubs have been taken up.

I’ve never agued any different. My argument has always been that some fans will miss out needlessly. Even though it’s a minority, it still seems wrong to me. The main attraction is the NRC final, not the x9’s. That should mean all the fan’s of the two teams competing in it get priority imo.

So you are acknowledging that there may only be a few fans who are upset by this (although they could ring the RFL and get tickets) yet you are kicking off saying the RFL are incompetent. What the RFL have done here is to create a demand for tickets. It would be very interesting to know what the waiting list is at Widnes for these. I suspect not very high.

Of course the main attraction is the NRC, however this has never been a big enough attraction in the past to sell the game out, so the RFL have taken action to sell this out, and you claim they are crap.

I’ve no idea how you can know just how many x9’s tickets have been,or will be, upgraded. The fact they can’t even give a figure of how many are likely to be available on the day, means the RFL probably don’t know either. It’s not a good position for any fan to be in, having to travel all the way to Blackpool without even knowing if they’ll be able to get a ticket, or which part of the ground they will be sat.

Why would anybody travel to Blackpool, when the same press release said they can ring the RFL as they have some left?

Of course the RFL can't say how many will be available at the time, as that depends on quite a few things.

You have an average crowd of 3,700ish, and have slightly more tickets than that already sold. Widnes fans who do not have a ticket can call the RFL and get one. What exactly is the issue?

Just imagine if you were a football fan where finals don't even cater for their season ticket holders!

I know it just looks as though I am disagreeing with everything you say, but that is not the case. As I said, I understand the frustration, although I don;t actually see any evidence that there are hundreds of people who can;t get a ticket (as they are still on general sale), but I do appreciate that your club could probably sell another 1k if you were given them.

For me, there are two important things here.

1) Sell the game out - it looks like for the first time this will happen, despite the fact that Widnes have played there before and apparently taken 5k, it never sold out. Cas and Hull KR have also played in this game and not managed to sell it out.

2) Ensure 'regular' fans get a ticket - by this I mean fans who make the effort to go regularly. Season ticket holders will have theirs and the regular fans will have theirs. Forget the silly argument about the 5k that turned up for the free game against Gateshead. I can counter that with the sub-2k crowd against York (if that figure is correct from your website). The fact is that for a lot of standard games, you will get around 3.2k fans and these will all be going, if they want to.

If this game sells out (indications are that it probably will) then would you still argue that the RFL are incompetent?

Their job is to sell the event out. When you took 5k it didn't sell out, so if they can give you 1300 tickets less and still sell it out, would you still claim they are $hite? Remember, this isn;t all about what suits you and your fans, this is about the game as a whole.

: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:46 pm  

Dave T wrote:

I'm not saying anybody deserves to be knocked back, but the RFL have given your club enough tickets to cover your regular fans. No doubt you will quote the couple of games over 5k again, yet you don't quote the low attendances you have had this year. I saw one that was less then 2k not so long ago, although that one may have been wrong.

They have done exactly that. How do you know how many they have held back for the 9's? You don't. For all we know, the sponsorship deal with Northern Rail and Co-Op as well as other partners may mean that a good portion of tickets not allocated to the clubs have been taken up.


So you are acknowledging that there may only be a few fans who are upset by this (although they could ring the RFL and get tickets) yet you are kicking off saying the RFL are incompetent. What the RFL have done here is to create a demand for tickets. It would be very interesting to know what the waiting list is at Widnes for these. I suspect not very high.

Of course the main attraction is the NRC, however this has never been a big enough attraction in the past to sell the game out, so the RFL have taken action to sell this out, and you claim they are crap.

Why would anybody travel to Blackpool, when the same press release said they can ring the RFL as they have some left?

Of course the RFL can't say how many will be available at the time, as that depends on quite a few things.

You have an average crowd of 3,700ish, and have slightly more tickets than that already sold. Widnes fans who do not have a ticket can call the RFL and get one. What exactly is the issue?

Just imagine if you were a football fan where finals don't even cater for their season ticket holders!

I know it just looks as though I am disagreeing with everything you say, but that is not the case. As I said, I understand the frustration, although I don;t actually see any evidence that there are hundreds of people who can;t get a ticket (as they are still on general sale), but I do appreciate that your club could probably sell another 1k if you were given them.

For me, there are two important things here.

1) Sell the game out - it looks like for the first time this will happen, despite the fact that Widnes have played there before and apparently taken 5k, it never sold out. Cas and Hull KR have also played in this game and not managed to sell it out.

2) Ensure 'regular' fans get a ticket - by this I mean fans who make the effort to go regularly. Season ticket holders will have theirs and the regular fans will have theirs. Forget the silly argument about the 5k that turned up for the free game against Gateshead. I can counter that with the sub-2k crowd against York (if that figure is correct from your website). The fact is that for a lot of standard games, you will get around 3.2k fans and these will all be going, if they want to.

If this game sells out (indications are that it probably will) then would you still argue that the RFL are incompetent?

Their job is to sell the event out. When you took 5k it didn't sell out, so if they can give you 1300 tickets less and still sell it out, would you still claim they are $hite? Remember, this isn;t all about what suits you and your fans, this is about the game as a whole.[/quote]

The NRC is much more important than it has ever been before

Or I'll rephrase that , WINNING the NRC is much more important than ever before

In the same way as just getting to the GF will be much more important than it has ever been before , in effect making the semi final more important than the final

Yes it will be a day out in Blackpool [ I'd spend the day there if you paid me ] but the most important part to both clubs will be ' ticking the box ' , not actually getting the silver

I have noticed you have avoided answering how you think the SL clubs would react to a competition like the 9 's if they were told to attend with 1 st team squads

And guess what , we dont give a stuff about the ' game as a whole ' , just as neither do you