They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old. Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn, at the going down of the sun and in the morning – WE WILL REMEMBER THEM
One of my big interests in life is the two World Wars, wargraves and the memorials to those who served this country. I am a local volunteer with the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) and have adopted a number of wargraves of Battle of Britain pilots. I give them a clean and tidy to maintain their appearance, befitting of the person who made the ultimate sacrifice for this country. I am not sure if you have ever had a look at the CWGC website but on it is a publication listing rugby players who have served their country in its time of need.
As you can see, there aren’t any rugby league people on it. I have spoken to the CWGC people and I have been given the go ahead to produce a list of rugby league people who answered their countries call in time of conflict. I have been in contact with Stevo and we agree this is something that doesn’t exist but we have agreed it needs to exist!
I have written to all the clubs for the names of people who served this country in a time of conflict. This is where you guys and gals can help. Please could you forward to me the names of people associated with your club that went to war. Not just those who made the ultimate sacrifice but those who came back.
It is hoped when all the names have been collated, to produce three books of remembrance. One each to be given to The Rugby League Heritage Centre, one to the RFL HQ at Red Hall and one to the National Arboretum in Staffordshire. The details will also be passed to the CWGC for inclusion on their website.
Also, I will create a register of where their final resting places are, if the fallen are buried in this country, I would like some volunteers to tend their final resting place so they aren’t forgotten.
So, please send me the names of those brave people from the rugby league community who answered the call. I don’t mind being told many times about one person. It would be very sad if we missed out someone who should be remembered!
You can either reply to this thread, PM me or email me directly to the project email rlwarheroes@yahoo.co.uk
Thank you in advance for your help with this project.
“They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor, the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning, WE will remember them!”
One of my big interests in life is the two World Wars, wargraves and the memorials to those who served this country. I am a local volunteer with the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) and have adopted a number of wargraves of Battle of Britain pilots. I give them a clean and tidy to maintain their appearance, befitting of the person who made the ultimate sacrifice for this country. I am not sure if you have ever had a look at the CWGC website but on it is a publication listing rugby players who have served their country in its time of need.
As you can see, there aren’t any rugby league people on it. I have spoken to the CWGC people and I have been given the go ahead to produce a list of rugby league people who answered their countries call in time of conflict. I have been in contact with Stevo and we agree this is something that doesn’t exist but we have agreed it needs to exist!
I have written to all the clubs for the names of people who served this country in a time of conflict. This is where you guys and gals can help. Please could you forward to me the names of people associated with your club that went to war. Not just those who made the ultimate sacrifice but those who came back.
It is hoped when all the names have been collated, to produce three books of remembrance. One each to be given to The Rugby League Heritage Centre, one to the RFL HQ at Red Hall and one to the National Arboretum in Staffordshire. The details will also be passed to the CWGC for inclusion on their website.
Also, I will create a register of where their final resting places are, if the fallen are buried in this country, I would like some volunteers to tend their final resting place so they aren’t forgotten.
So, please send me the names of those brave people from the rugby league community who answered the call. I don’t mind being told many times about one person. It would be very sad if we missed out someone who should be remembered!
You can either reply to this thread, PM me or email me directly to the project email rlwarheroes@yahoo.co.uk
Thank you in advance for your help with this project.
“They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor, the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning, WE will remember them!”
There has never been published a comprehensive history of Widnes Rugby League Club, and so it is that while the deeds of such as Sorensen, the Mylers, Karalius, Elwell & co. are known to most fans of the club, there are a whole host of players from beyond living memory whose exploits are now largely forgotten.
Ernest Swinton for example. I was recently reading an old brochure published in 1932 which contained a brief history of the first fifty years or so of rugby in the town. It mentioned in passing the death of former player Ernie Swinton in the First World War and it struck me that his story must be one worth telling and yet there were no other details given and nowhere else could I recall having read of his life and death.
Surely, I thought, it must be possible to research some details of this player?
To start with, the excellent Player Database at the club's official website shows that he played 84 times in four seasons from 1910 to 1914. Clearly he was a regular choice during that time and his return of 42 tries was impressive for a Widnes player in that era. I have a copy of the teamsheets compiled by the Record Keepers Club of every Widnes line-up since 1895 so I was able to establish that Ernie made a try scoring debut on the right-wing at home to Ebbw Vale on New Year's Eve 1910.
He appeared in most games for the rest of that season, scoring 9 tries in total including a hat-trick in a 29-0 win over Dewsbury.He carried on where he left off in the following campaign, his 18 touchdowns equalling the seasonal club record at the time, but made only 9 appearances in 1912/13 which brought 5 tries. 1913/14 saw him cross for another 10 tries. And there his career ends as it began - with a try - at Batley on 18 April, 1914.
War broke out on 4 August that year and although Widnes and other clubs played on for a full 1914/15 season, Ernie Swinton's name does not appear on the teamsheets. A visit to the War Graves Commission website spells out why - "Name: Swinton, Ernest, Rank: Second Lieutenant, Regiment: Royal Field Artillery, Age: 25, Date of Death: 28/05/1915. Son of Thomas and Alice Swinton, of Queen's Arms Hotel, Widnes".
For him to have been in action in the spring of 1915 he must have enlisted in the early days of the war, given the months of training that were required beforehand. Personally I was fascinated by the detail of his parents, and presumably Ernie himself, having been based at the Queens Arms on Moor Lane, just a few hundred yards away from the ground. It's easy to imagine him making the short journey to training a couple of times a week, probably cutting across the fields in those days before the area was built up.
The next step for me was to check the microfiche records of the Weekly News at Widnes Library to establish what, if anything, was reported of his death. I wasn't expecting too much coverage - after all death was a commonplace during that terrible war - but I was astonished at what I found. The issue dated 28 May contained a few paragraphs which related that Ernie had sustained a serious injury in shelling and had lost a leg and part of one arm. However it suggested that, despite the severity of his wounds, he might survive. Of course it was not to be and the following Friday, 4 June, the paper devoted its entire front page (remember it was a broadsheet not a tabloid in those day) to an account of his funeral.
It stated "Never has a death and funeral so strongly touched the public imagination in Widnes as the passing and interment this week of Ernest Swinton, the well known athlete...it is estimated that the military funeral was witnessed by ten thousand sympathetic townspeople".
The tribute goes on to make mention of his academic career - he was a former pupil of Farnworth Grammar School and a graduate in engineering from Liverpool University - and his prize-winning athletics prowess. Of his rugby career it says that "He first played for the 'A' team, but after two matches his ability and speed ensured his elevation to the first team...When sprinting powers were needed he could always be relied upon, and some of the tries which he gained on the Lowerhouse Lane ground were acclaimed as worthy of the best wing threequarters in the (league)".
His fatal injuries occurred, it was reported, after he was chosen for a hazardous mission, on account of his engineering skills, and the newspaper is understandably enthusiastic as to the importance of his tasks (in fact historians record that the 'Battle' of Festubert was typical of the many hundreds of inconclusive and virtually pointless skirmishes which characterised the First World War and which achieved so little tactically but at huge cost in terms of casualties).
What was somewhat out of the ordinary in Ernest Swinton's death was that it occurred in this country, as he had been repatriated to London for medical treatment. Consequently his resting place is not "some corner of a foreign field" but rather St Lukes at Farnworth.
Having a spare twenty minutes one afternoon I thought I would try to find his grave - a hopeless task you might think in that crowded and overgrown cemetery but I quickly located it, only to find it in a poor state. The memorial (which also commemorates Ernest's parents and a grandparent) once featured an ornate Celtic cross but this is now broken (vandalised?) and part of it is missing.
It seems poignant beyond belief that the grave of this man, who was once an idol to a generation of rugby fans and whose military funeral was witnessed by thousands of mourners, now lies in a state of disrepair. The War Graves Commission is unable to undertake any structural repairs to the memorial though, to be fair, they have cleaned up and tidied the plot in recent weeks. It would be nice to think that we, as supporters of Widnes RL, could do something to remedy the situation though whether this would require permission from any surviving relatives is not clear.
What is certain is that the memory of Ernest Swinton deserves to be honoured as best we can.
There has never been published a comprehensive history of Widnes Rugby League Club, and so it is that while the deeds of such as Sorensen, the Mylers, Karalius, Elwell & co. are known to most fans of the club, there are a whole host of players from beyond living memory whose exploits are now largely forgotten.
Ernest Swinton for example. I was recently reading an old brochure published in 1932 which contained a brief history of the first fifty years or so of rugby in the town. It mentioned in passing the death of former player Ernie Swinton in the First World War and it struck me that his story must be one worth telling and yet there were no other details given and nowhere else could I recall having read of his life and death.
Surely, I thought, it must be possible to research some details of this player?
To start with, the excellent Player Database at the club's official website shows that he played 84 times in four seasons from 1910 to 1914. Clearly he was a regular choice during that time and his return of 42 tries was impressive for a Widnes player in that era. I have a copy of the teamsheets compiled by the Record Keepers Club of every Widnes line-up since 1895 so I was able to establish that Ernie made a try scoring debut on the right-wing at home to Ebbw Vale on New Year's Eve 1910.
He appeared in most games for the rest of that season, scoring 9 tries in total including a hat-trick in a 29-0 win over Dewsbury.He carried on where he left off in the following campaign, his 18 touchdowns equalling the seasonal club record at the time, but made only 9 appearances in 1912/13 which brought 5 tries. 1913/14 saw him cross for another 10 tries. And there his career ends as it began - with a try - at Batley on 18 April, 1914.
War broke out on 4 August that year and although Widnes and other clubs played on for a full 1914/15 season, Ernie Swinton's name does not appear on the teamsheets. A visit to the War Graves Commission website spells out why - "Name: Swinton, Ernest, Rank: Second Lieutenant, Regiment: Royal Field Artillery, Age: 25, Date of Death: 28/05/1915. Son of Thomas and Alice Swinton, of Queen's Arms Hotel, Widnes".
For him to have been in action in the spring of 1915 he must have enlisted in the early days of the war, given the months of training that were required beforehand. Personally I was fascinated by the detail of his parents, and presumably Ernie himself, having been based at the Queens Arms on Moor Lane, just a few hundred yards away from the ground. It's easy to imagine him making the short journey to training a couple of times a week, probably cutting across the fields in those days before the area was built up.
The next step for me was to check the microfiche records of the Weekly News at Widnes Library to establish what, if anything, was reported of his death. I wasn't expecting too much coverage - after all death was a commonplace during that terrible war - but I was astonished at what I found. The issue dated 28 May contained a few paragraphs which related that Ernie had sustained a serious injury in shelling and had lost a leg and part of one arm. However it suggested that, despite the severity of his wounds, he might survive. Of course it was not to be and the following Friday, 4 June, the paper devoted its entire front page (remember it was a broadsheet not a tabloid in those day) to an account of his funeral.
It stated "Never has a death and funeral so strongly touched the public imagination in Widnes as the passing and interment this week of Ernest Swinton, the well known athlete...it is estimated that the military funeral was witnessed by ten thousand sympathetic townspeople".
The tribute goes on to make mention of his academic career - he was a former pupil of Farnworth Grammar School and a graduate in engineering from Liverpool University - and his prize-winning athletics prowess. Of his rugby career it says that "He first played for the 'A' team, but after two matches his ability and speed ensured his elevation to the first team...When sprinting powers were needed he could always be relied upon, and some of the tries which he gained on the Lowerhouse Lane ground were acclaimed as worthy of the best wing threequarters in the (league)".
His fatal injuries occurred, it was reported, after he was chosen for a hazardous mission, on account of his engineering skills, and the newspaper is understandably enthusiastic as to the importance of his tasks (in fact historians record that the 'Battle' of Festubert was typical of the many hundreds of inconclusive and virtually pointless skirmishes which characterised the First World War and which achieved so little tactically but at huge cost in terms of casualties).
What was somewhat out of the ordinary in Ernest Swinton's death was that it occurred in this country, as he had been repatriated to London for medical treatment. Consequently his resting place is not "some corner of a foreign field" but rather St Lukes at Farnworth.
Having a spare twenty minutes one afternoon I thought I would try to find his grave - a hopeless task you might think in that crowded and overgrown cemetery but I quickly located it, only to find it in a poor state. The memorial (which also commemorates Ernest's parents and a grandparent) once featured an ornate Celtic cross but this is now broken (vandalised?) and part of it is missing.
It seems poignant beyond belief that the grave of this man, who was once an idol to a generation of rugby fans and whose military funeral was witnessed by thousands of mourners, now lies in a state of disrepair. The War Graves Commission is unable to undertake any structural repairs to the memorial though, to be fair, they have cleaned up and tidied the plot in recent weeks. It would be nice to think that we, as supporters of Widnes RL, could do something to remedy the situation though whether this would require permission from any surviving relatives is not clear.
What is certain is that the memory of Ernest Swinton deserves to be honoured as best we can.
They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old. Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn, at the going down of the sun and in the morning – WE WILL REMEMBER THEM
Thank you for that - when times are getting difficult for me with this project, I will re-read this posting and carry on as this sums up exactly the reason why we should have some form of recognition available before it is too late.
I have also sent an email to the CWGC about this grave and I will keep you posted on any developments.
I don't know if you've read Tony Collins book 'Rugby League in Twentieth Century Britain' but he mentions the scarcity of information about RL casualties in the Great War. In passing he refers to losses at various clubs and says Widnes had 13 players killed.
When I queried this with Tony he said his source was the Athletic News articles of 10 & 17 March 1919 which listed the numbers of 'fallen' at fifteen RL clubs (but not, I think, individual names).
So far I've managed to trace only seven names from the Widnes playing register who were killed in action and most of those were reserve grade players.
Perhaps there are others that I've missed who will take the total up to 13 but I suspect that figure may include local amateur players who had only the most tenuous links with the Chemics.
If you require any more information about the following servicemen there's a superb book called 'I Don't Want To Be A Sunbeam' which includes brief biographies and details of their death of every individual on the Widnes town WW1 memorial, 800+ people in all.
I'll gladly type up the relevant entries for the following men if that will be of any use to you.
J Kinsella (‘A’ Team threequarter, possibly some 1st team games 1912/13) Died 08/05/1915
Ernie Swinton (1st Team Winger 1911-14) Died 28/5/1915
Lewis T Griffiths (‘A’ Team winger) Died 30/06/1916
Peter Golding (‘A’ Team player) Died 08/11/1916
David Henry Tench (‘A’ Team player) Died 31/07/1917
James Patrick “Paddy” Breen (‘A’ Team player also played 1st team in War Emergency League 1916/17) Died 21/10/1918 brother John also died.
John William Daintith (on playing register 1909-16) Died 4/9/1917
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