: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:12 am  

Dan155 wrote:

5) Toulouse and Les Catalans will be reluctant to leave Superleague for a risky venture in setting up a fully pro French league which would initially be inferior to Superleague.

Yeah sure. I think that we are on a one way street here. If the SL includes at some point 3 French teams, a Welsh one and possibly an Irish. It is likely to attract big money for the competition and for the French teams. I do not see in such a situation who would have interest to split the competition and build a new French league. The organisers of the SL would incur a decrease in funding with foreign TV deals decreasing, and possibly Southern interest in the game waning. French clubs would jeopardise steady income and high media recognition for a second (or third) rated national competition. I don't see why the people in charge of the game and the clubs would ever make this decision. It would just not be in their best interest. I think the only way we would go back to a national competition is if the French club fail in SL and go in administration.
Frankly I do not see why a national competition is desirable. I find the prospect of a European competition much more fun.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:23 am  

this means more nrl players to come and play in europe

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:17 pm  

lpage wrote:

Yeah sure. I think that we are on a one way street here. If the SL includes at some point 3 French teams, a Welsh one and possibly an Irish. It is likely to attract big money for the competition and for the French teams. I do not see in such a situation who would have interest to split the competition and build a new French league. The organisers of the SL would incur a decrease in funding with foreign TV deals decreasing, and possibly Southern interest in the game waning. French clubs would jeopardise steady income and high media recognition for a second (or third) rated national competition. I don't see why the people in charge of the game and the clubs would ever make this decision. It would just not be in their best interest. I think the only way we would go back to a national competition is if the French club fail in SL and go in administration.
Frankly I do not see why a national competition is desirable. I find the prospect of a European competition much more fun.

You dont think that even if there is a risk and an ititial drop in qaulity at some teams it would be worth if it to have a league of fulltim french teams spreading the game around france and making france a much more dominant nation in rl? a succesful french league could expand to spain and then who knows belgium, germany, italy, with sl concntrating on teams from all over the british isles. Relying on sl to have outposts all over the continant will mean that rl will never be more than a minority sport in any eurpean country, will weaken the game in england as less and less english teams are in the top flight, and stop the french (and other european nations) having a chance to ever compete with the aussies, kiwi and english.

This isnt some daft flatcapper just trying to get rid of the french teams, this is what i honestley believe we should be aiming for the good of rl (in france and britain, as well as the rest of europe), and is at least 10 years away. If it were to ever happen i would hope that the top french teams will still be allowed to compete in the sl playoffs.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:57 pm  

pyeman wrote:

You dont think that even if there is a risk and an ititial drop in qaulity at some teams it would be worth if it to have a league of fulltim french teams spreading the game around france and making france a much more dominant nation in rl? a succesful french league could expand to spain and then who knows belgium, germany, italy, with sl concntrating on teams from all over the british isles. Relying on sl to have outposts all over the continant will mean that rl will never be more than a minority sport in any eurpean country, will weaken the game in england as less and less english teams are in the top flight, and stop the french (and other european nations) having a chance to ever compete with the aussies, kiwi and english.

This isnt some daft flatcapper just trying to get rid of the french teams, this is what i honestley believe we should be aiming for the good of rl (in france and britain, as well as the rest of europe), and is at least 10 years away. If it were to ever happen i would hope that the top french teams will still be allowed to compete in the sl playoffs.

Agreed. The idea of a European club comp with one or two teams from every country is ridiculous and antiqued. We need domestic competitions in as many countries as possible. Super League in the future should be a British (ideally English) competition. We can maintain international competition between clubs through a Champions League/Heinekin Cup type tournament by all means, but to suggest that the clubs play solely on a European level is absurd IMO.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:02 pm  

Wes Hooligan wrote:

Agreed. The idea of a European club comp with one or two teams from every country is ridiculous and antiqued. We need domestic competitions in as many countries as possible. Super League in the future should be a British (ideally English) competition. We can maintain international competition between clubs through a Champions League/Heinekin Cup type tournament by all means, but to suggest that the clubs play solely on a European level is absurd IMO.

Do i detect a bit of sarcasm in that post by any chance? And i'm not advocating an all english sl by any means, i would hope we would have two clubs from wales, scotland and ireland in sl in the future so that those countires can grow internationally and the game has a profile throughout the british isles.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:22 pm  

pyeman wrote:

Do i detect a bit of sarcasm in that post by any chance? And i'm not advocating an all english sl by any means, i would hope we would have two clubs from wales, scotland and ireland in sl in the future so that those countires can grow internationally and the game has a profile throughout the british isles.

No, I was being completely sincere There is no logic in a European competition at all. Welsh, Scottish and Irish teams can play in Super League for the foreseeable future, but you'd hope that they would get something sorted long-term too, even if only a Magners league type competition.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:27 pm  

Wes Hooligan wrote:

No, I was being completely genuine There is no logic in a European competition at all. Welsh and Irish teams can play in Super League, but you'd hope that they would get something sorted long-term too.

Sorry if i misunderstood you then sometimes on rlfans its hard to take people at face value. In the very long term i would hope there would be scottis/irish/ welsh leagues but in the more medium term i see sl as a league for british teams, with a french league having teams from some other countries as well. Maybe in 20 years we will see a competative equivelent to the european cup, or perhaps a playoffs full of teams from countries around europe.

: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:51 pm  

pyeman wrote:

You dont think that even if there is a risk and an ititial drop in qaulity at some teams it would be worth if it to have a league of fulltim french teams spreading the game around france and making france a much more dominant nation in rl?

Hi pyeman,

It is what has been tried in France for a long time. Remember France is a very old country of RL who went twice in final of the world cup (54 and 68 ). It is not a new country which has not yet tried a self centered development.
The fact is that RL has been on the decline in France since the 70'. It is on the contrary on a steady growth since 2006 and the entry of the Dragons in SL. A European competition will raise the interest of the public and the media and bring money in the competition, any national only competition would gather a much more limited interest. It is in a certain measure the same thing here.

The SL is largely an M62 competition. We complain about the lack of media coverage but in the South nobody cares about RL because it is seen as a regional game. My London colleagues looked at me like I was out of my mind when I said I was going to see the Quins. The fact is RL in England needs Europe to break this image and become really a sport of national interest. The idea that it would weaken national competitions is not right I think. In France the national competition was on the verge of bankruptcy and the licenses are now increasing. For the CC, it becomes a kind of European second tier of the SL with Toulouse which most CC English fans loves as a new destination.

The europeanisation of the competition will bring money, raise the stakes of national competitions and increase the interest of the public. In France there is no ambiguity. This old traditional sport was slowly dying. The "national" strategy (and as a consequence the lack of support for the PSG club by the federation) has been followed for a long time and it failed. The French federation has clearly opted for a European strategy of development and it pays off.

It is clearly the best strategy for the development of RL in France and the fact that 2/3 of people vote for such an option on Total RL (where there are lots of CC supporters) shows that even English fans may think it would be good for the English RL.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:25 am  

pyeman wrote:

You dont think that even if there is a risk and an ititial drop in qaulity at some teams it would be worth if it to have a league of fulltim french teams spreading the game around france and making france a much more dominant nation in rl? a succesful french league could expand to spain and then who knows belgium, germany, italy, with sl concntrating on teams from all over the british isles. Relying on sl to have outposts all over the continant will mean that rl will never be more than a minority sport in any eurpean country, will weaken the game in england as less and less english teams are in the top flight, and stop the french (and other european nations) having a chance to ever compete with the aussies, kiwi and english.

This isnt some daft flatcapper just trying to get rid of the french teams, this is what i honestley believe we should be aiming for the good of rl (in france and britain, as well as the rest of europe), and is at least 10 years away. If it were to ever happen i would hope that the top french teams will still be allowed to compete in the sl playoffs.

Whilst i do find the idea of a pro French league and a European Cup exciting, i dont find it realistic. Afetr reading the Catalans forum (with google translator mind) their onyl real gripe with games in Barcelona is that it takes money away from Perpignans economy. It really is generating consistent year round English tourism to the city.

A European competition generates more interest in the press. And i do agree that its slightly unfair to some of the smaller traditional teams, hence why i eventually want a fully professional Superleague 2 with promotion and relegation between the two. Initially i dont think theres room for more than say 3 French clubs in SL but two more could thrive in a pro-second tier.

Having said that after Toulouse i think the next expansion side should be British. A lot of Union clubs in England are in some serious debt with questions over the viability of top flight Newcastle, Bristol and Leeds sides. There has even been talk of reducing the Premiership to a 10 team league.
If Union in England briefly flounders then we need to be in a position to step in and show the media that we are the top Rugby competition in Europe of either code.

: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:47 am  

Dan155 wrote:

Whilst i do find the idea of a pro French league and a European Cup exciting, i dont find it realistic. Afetr reading the Catalans forum (with google translator mind) their onyl real gripe with games in Barcelona is that it takes money away from Perpignans economy. It really is generating consistent year round English tourism to the city.

A European competition generates more interest in the press. And i do agree that its slightly unfair to some of the smaller traditional teams, hence why i eventually want a fully professional Superleague 2 with promotion and relegation between the two. Initially i dont think theres room for more than say 3 French clubs in SL but two more could thrive in a pro-second tier.

Having said that after Toulouse i think the next expansion side should be British. A lot of Union clubs in England are in some serious debt with questions over the viability of top flight Newcastle, Bristol and Leeds sides. There has even been talk of reducing the Premiership to a 10 team league.
If Union in England briefly flounders then we need to be in a position to step in and show the media that we are the top Rugby competition in Europe of either code.

The problem with that is that a lot of union 'fans' won't even consider league.
A lot of people who go to union games go for the day out or event rather than the actual game itself (see England internationals at Twickers).