Re: This week in Toulouse : Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:45 am  

marvwoodburn wrote:

I think Paris should be put in a box and left there for the forseeable future. you would imagine TO would be mighty p****d off should they be overlooked again.

Don't think upsetting people is in the criteria of SL licensing (and even less upsetting French people, frankly would the RFL give a damn?). It is clear that choosing Paris over Toulouse would be cruel. Toulouse have done all the hard work, accepted a tough challenge from the RFL and building up to reach a higher standard. I'd love to see them in SL in 2012. However, if Paris propose an excellent project in 2012, the truth is that their is no comparison between the two clubs. Paris would be the best choice for SL and French RL.
I'd hope that in case of good application from Paris, the RFL would have the guts to accept the two clubs and rebrand the competition as the European Super League. It'd be this kind of big shift which could attract the UK media nation-wide. Accepting the two clubs would also make the difference for the French media (small market of 60millions people).
I preempt the question: yes there are enough good players in France for a 3 SL teams (with quotas of 8 antipodeans). Incidentally, Paris would add to it that their large pool of RU young talent could opt for RL to become professionnal.

[John_D]

Re: This week in Toulouse : Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:29 am  

FrogRL wrote:

Based on past record, they have better credentials to build up a top professional sport club than any other potential applicant.

So did PSG

Re: This week in Toulouse : Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:47 pm  

FrogRL wrote:

I preempt the question: yes there are enough good players in France for a 3 SL teams (with quotas of 8 antipodeans). Incidentally, Paris would add to it that their large pool of RU young talent could opt for RL to become professionnal.

Eight? Wouldn't it make more sense to build up a solid, mainly French player base and then think about applying for Super League?

Surely the only players who would opt for league would be those that weren't good enough for union. Would rugby union cast offs be the best thing for French rugby league?

[John_D]

Re: This week in Toulouse : Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:52 pm  

Catalancs wrote:

Would rugby union cast offs be the best thing for French rugby league?

Depends when Sonny Bill gets residency.

[John_D]

Re: This week in Toulouse : Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:03 pm  

FrogRL wrote:

Incidentally, Paris would add to it that their large pool of RU young talent could opt for RL to become professionnal.

I just don't see this happening. It's not like there's a massive amount of union talent turning to our game now, so why would that change? We've done well to get hold of the likes of Gossard and Baile, but it's hardly a torrent.

Re: This week in Toulouse : Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:50 am  

John_D wrote:

So did PSG

There is no comparison between the PSG and the SF success story coming from third division to top European club in few years. It is a rugby club which makes lots of things easier (structures, fan overspill). And a major weakness of the PSG was the lack of support from the French federation (situation is reversed now).
I know it is a bit easy to talk, but I'd be ready to put my money on a William Hill's wager about a success of SF in SL (something like reaching playoffs in second years, over 5000 crowds in the second year).

Re: This week in Toulouse : Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:58 am  

Catalancs wrote: Eight? Wouldn't it make more sense to build up a solid, mainly French player base and then think about applying for Super League? Yes in theory, but for players to come, you need money, public interest, TV time... And this is what 3 French clubs would bring. The SL would become a TV product appealing to major French TV broadcasters, and its audience and TV rights would increase significantly, which would help increase the pool of players. This is the Catalans model, playing with a majority of Australians initially and seeing a good bunch of youngsters coming through following an large increase in local participation. Catalancs wrote: Surely the only players who would opt for league would be those that weren't good enough for union. Would rugby union cast offs be the best thing for French rugby league? Well the SF RL could surely do with Dupuy and Attoub, and any other such cast off . Also RU and RL are different sports and some youngsters who do not find a spot in RU may well have the quality to play RL. The presence of an "RL option" at the Stade Francais would increase the pool of potential players interested in RL.

Catalancs wrote: Eight? Wouldn't it make more sense to build up a solid, mainly French player base and then think about applying for Super League? Yes in theory, but for players to come, you need money, public interest, TV time... And this is what 3 French clubs would bring. The SL would become a TV product appealing to major French TV broadcasters, and its audience and TV rights would increase significantly, which would help increase the pool of players. This is the Catalans model, playing with a majority of Australians initially and seeing a good bunch of youngsters coming through following an large increase in local participation. Catalancs wrote: Surely the only players who would opt for league would be those that weren't good enough for union. Would rugby union cast offs be the best thing for French rugby league? Well the SF RL could surely do with Dupuy and Attoub, and any other such cast off . Also RU and RL are different sports and some youngsters who do not find a spot in RU may well have the quality to play RL. The presence of an "RL option" at the Stade Francais would increase the pool of potential players interested in RL.

Re: This week in Toulouse : Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:13 am  

John_D wrote:

I just don't see this happening. It's not like there's a massive amount of union talent turning to our game now, so why would that change? We've done well to get hold of the likes of Gossard and Baile, but it's hardly a torrent.

I am not that pessimistic. SF is rich, very rich, and also they are prestigious, very prestigious. While not many RU French player may fancy going in a southern town play a rugby which hardly anybody knows in France, young players will not see a spot in a SF RL team in this way.
Obviously this won't happen the first year. But give it 2-3 years for the club to be competitive and a proportion of RU talent will consider this as an excellent option. Even more if it is broadcasted on major TV channel...
That is why the 3 teams in 2012 makes a lot of sense. Not for the sake of 3, but with Paris, Toulouse, Perpignan in it, the SL will have the magic tryptic to appeal to the French masses: three of the best French rugby cities competing in a European competition all year. It will appeal to the national psyche (French-English competition) and to the local psyche (competition to be the best French club).

I am not bracing myself though. Local politics will certainly prevail over grand vision. We could end up with 12 clubs in SL in 2012 without Toulouse and Paris
Va comprendre Charles

Re: This week in Toulouse : Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:07 am  

FrogRL wrote:

Don't think upsetting people is in the criteria of SL licensing .

The people of Widnes might disagree with you there mate

FrogRL wrote:

It is clear that choosing Paris over Toulouse would be cruel. Toulouse have done all the hard work, accepted a tough challenge from the RFL and building up to reach a higher standard. I'd love to see them in SL in 2012. However, if Paris propose an excellent project in 2012, the truth is that their is no comparison between the two clubs. Paris would be the best choice for SL and French RL.

Being serious though I dont nessaceraly agree with this IF is a very big word and as you say Toulouse has done the hard work and has already put a pretty steady case forward on more than one occasion, and continue to do so in the Championship, also in terms of SL Toulouse is a good place, a large city. The benefits of the media in Paris are obvious but other than that i cant see Paris as the best choice

FrogRL wrote:

I'd hope that in case of good application from Paris, the RFL would have the guts to accept the two clubs and rebrand the competition as the European Super League. It'd be this kind of big shift which could attract the UK media nation-wide. Accepting the two clubs would also make the difference for the French media (small market of 60millions people).

I agree in what your saying and admire your vision but i think its too big of a risk to take especially after the Crusaders failings

FrogRL wrote:

I preempt the question: yes there are enough good players in France for a 3 SL teams (with quotas of 8 antipodeans). Incidentally, Paris would add to it that their large pool of RU young talent could opt for RL to become professionnal.

You preemted it but unfortuantly your a bus ride off, there arent even enough good players in France to support one SL team with a championship team underneath it, and even if there was they should be aiming for less than 8 overseas, and John D is right we havent seen a huge surge of union players switching in the south, so why should it be different in Paris?