: Tue May 05, 2009 10:38 pm  

jannerboyuk wrote:

when it comes to comparisons i'd like to be compared to all other teams averages with their main derbies taken out. of course doing this would expose a weakness of the game that some people would rather not reflect on, headline figures are much nicer.

I think that's kind of missing the point. The derbies are a fundamental part of the appeal of heartland teams. Not to say they are set in stone, but just ask the good people of Humberside how energised the city is by a genuine competitive rivalry being re-established.

I was/am against franchising, though deifniteley not against expansion. My fear for CC was and is that the grassroots and fanbase have not been established sufficiently to support a SL club at this point, and while the great success of the colts is a lift, that doesn't mean that CC were right for a franchise this time around... the lack of derbies and the likelyhood of long, losing runs must surely have been a consideration in the first place.

But... while we're being controversial and exploring the point... I wonder if it might have been better to have TWO teams, a Swansea side and a Cardiff side, playing in the NL, to create exactly the kind of local rivalry and, therefore, coverage, that the sport enjoys elsewhere.

At grassroots level it works in my region... Jannerboy, you of all people will appreciate the significance of Exeter Centurions' last minute win over Plymouth Titans in the SW Nines semi final this weekend

PS...are you in Wales or do you want to get involved in SWRL? PM me if you're still in the westcounty.

PPS.. why couldn't Argyle get relegated and reinstate that particular derby game next year

: Tue May 05, 2009 11:53 pm  

U SUK

: Wed May 06, 2009 12:02 am  

Wembley71 wrote:

I think that's kind of missing the point. The derbies are a fundamental part of the appeal of heartland teams. Not to say they are set in stone, but just ask the good people of Humberside how energised the city is by a genuine competitive rivalry being re-established.

I was/am against franchising, though deifniteley not against expansion. My fear for CC was and is that the grassroots and fanbase have not been established sufficiently to support a SL club at this point, and while the great success of the colts is a lift, that doesn't mean that CC were right for a franchise this time around... the lack of derbies and the likelyhood of long, losing runs must surely have been a consideration in the first place.

But... while we're being controversial and exploring the point... I wonder if it might have been better to have TWO teams, a Swansea side and a Cardiff side, playing in the NL, to create exactly the kind of local rivalry and, therefore, coverage, that the sport enjoys elsewhere.

At grassroots level it works in my region... Jannerboy, you of all people will appreciate the significance of Exeter Centurions' last minute win over Plymouth Titans in the SW Nines semi final this weekend

PS...are you in Wales or do you want to get involved in SWRL? PM me if you're still in the westcounty.

PPS.. why couldn't Argyle get relegated and reinstate that particular derby game next year

you're right about the derbies of course but when people are measuring our success then it needs to be taken into account in terms of headline numbers. our role is to expand the overall pool of rugby league support, players, media coverage, officials, coaches, merchandising. those people who would turn up for widnes in the superleague are already league fans, we bring new people. of course in the long run you risk losing those widnes fans but thats the balance and gamble that the rfl have to take.
whats worrying to me is the vitriol from some people directed towards a fledgling club barely hidden by a paperthin "i dont want any club to fail but' bolstered by a significant number of people actively hoping for our death. its not nice to be honest and can cloud some worthwhile debate.
what should have been done is interesting but moot, i think people concerned about the future health of the code should get behind us, forget the politics.
That result is a lot like the ashes defeat two years ago...i can barely recall the score, not really convinced it actually happened. the more i think about it the more unlikely it seems great win for the titans in fact. something like that.
im in wales at the mo, very happy to see how league has grown in the southwest. are the giants looking solid? any news of cornish teams - now that would be a rivalry worth having in league!
congrats to exeter for getting promoted. wont last.

: Wed May 06, 2009 12:05 am  

Starbug wrote:

Not a martyr at all , not totally against the Franchise/Licence system either as long as the competition and clubs that we are left with are shown some respect in their own right

ie , decisions made for the benifit of those clubs and the competition rather than thin veiled gimmicks with long term aims of SL

Basically cut the bull and say how it is , then we all know where we stand and can move on

Not too much to ask really

fair enough response.
to be fair to the rfl i genuinely think they want to see a flourishing championship, a strategy that makes perfect sense and is more then possible. i get sky sports next month and i look forward to seeing the thursday night game, i really enjoyed being in the national leagues, i miss it in some ways and not just cuz we won all the time.

: Wed May 06, 2009 7:20 am  

jannerboyuk wrote:

those people who would turn up for widnes in the superleague are already league fans, we bring new people. of course in the long run you risk losing those widnes fans but thats the balance and gamble that the rfl have to take.
.

But it's the NL club and it's fans that are being used as the stake in the rfl's gamble - not the crusaders!

jannerboyuk wrote:

what should have been done is interesting but moot, i think people concerned about the future health of the code should get behind us, forget the politics.

So fans across the NL are being asked to "get behind the crusaders, forget that your club has been dumped on"???????
errrrrrrrrrrrr, no!!

jannerboyuk wrote:

whats worrying to me is the vitriol from some people directed towards a fledgling club barely hidden by a paperthin "i dont want any club to fail but' bolstered by a significant number of people actively hoping for our death.

I can see how some fans may identify the celtic club as the focul point for their angst, as that club has been the beneficiary of the direction the game is being taken in.
I think it is important to identify that my wholehearted disatisfaction is levelled at the RFL. I don't give a toss about the crusaders as a club. If they fail they fail. If they succeed they succeed. C'est la vie. My constant ramblings are unlikely to change matters but I'll never stop asking the questions I believe deserve an answer!

: Wed May 06, 2009 10:48 am  

Rotherham Fev Fan wrote:

But it's the NL club and it's fans that are being used as the stake in the rfl's gamble - not the crusaders!


So fans across the NL are being asked to "get behind the crusaders, forget that your club has been dumped on"???????
errrrrrrrrrrrr, no!!


I can see how some fans may identify the celtic club as the focul point for their angst, as that club has been the beneficiary of the direction the game is being taken in.
I think it is important to identify that my wholehearted disatisfaction is levelled at the RFL. I don't give a toss about the crusaders as a club. If they fail they fail. If they succeed they succeed. C'est la vie. My constant ramblings are unlikely to change matters but I'll never stop asking the questions I believe deserve an answer!

well life's a bitch then you die.

: Wed May 06, 2009 12:15 pm  

Did Catalans and Quins get the same amount of bitching as we're getting now?

If not, why have a go at US for getting LESS preferential treatment? (I don't remember Cats and Quins fighting up from NL2)

And if so, then why complain when the RFL want to extend the game beyond a 20 mile strip either side of the M62?

Either you WANT to expand your game, or you want to keep it a bizarre local quirk like cheese rolling, bog snorkelling and pushing donkeys from belltowers.

Choose which.

: Wed May 06, 2009 3:23 pm  

Firefly-half wrote:

Did Catalans and Quins get the same amount of bitching as we're getting now?

If not, why have a go at US for getting LESS preferential treatment? (I don't remember Cats and Quins fighting up from NL2)

Can't remember the situation with London, a) because I seem to remember them gaining auto promotion, b) because it didn't affect my club, c) They weren't protected from relegation. - the number of aussies were always a concern.

Firefly-half wrote:

Either you WANT to expand your game, or you want to keep it a bizarre local quirk like cheese rolling, bog snorkelling and pushing donkeys from belltowers.

Choose which.

I was happy with our game regardless. However, I can see the benefits of a more National game. Just NOT how it's been done and definately not how it's going!

: Wed May 06, 2009 4:23 pm  

I noticed Rotherham Fev fan didn't post when we had 5,000 and 6,000 plus earlier on in the season and were giving teams like Saints a run for his money.

Can you tell me why you're on the site of a Super League club again?

I wouldn't dream of coming onto the Featherstone site and posting on a thread about attendances when you have three years stuck at that level and your only a third into this season. Why would I, you're in a different league and have the best part of two and a haklf years still to go.

If you came back in two years or so then that would be fair enough but coming on here now whinging is a bit silly don't you think?

: Wed May 06, 2009 4:42 pm  

crucrucrusaders wrote:

I noticed Rotherham Fev fan didn't post when we had 5,000 and 6,000 plus earlier on in the season and were giving teams like Saints a run for his money.

Because if you had 5-6k going through the gate each week there wouldn't be a need to ask the questions!!

crucrucrusaders wrote:

Can you tell me why you're on the site of a Super League club again?

Already have. Look earlier in the thread if you care to read it!

crucrucrusaders wrote:

If you came back in two years or so then that would be fair enough but coming on here now whinging is a bit silly don't you think?

No! Don't think I'll ever tire of making this point as long as this unfair system is in place!

Anyway, have you been on holiday or something?? I'd have bet money you'd have been on here before now making a point about my previous abstenance from all things SL incl their fora