: Thu May 14, 2009 11:50 am  

manxviking wrote:

But it isn't - history shows that SL teams with little to play for end up being walloped at the end of the season (mind you, the season we were relegated, both us and Leigh were embarassingly dreadful).

Conversely, Wakey had their biggest crowd for a decade in the relegation decider against Cas a few seasons ago. Result? The following season they doubled their average attendance (and Cas' attendance didn't drop much in NL1). Average attendances are already down this season and media coverage has dropped. Licensing is not good for the game which is why I remain vehemently opposed to it.

You were right about the Blues-Scarlets game. I am a Llanelli fan - have been ever since 1974 - but that merely illustrates the point I was making. If you don't think that's how SL will end up, I'm afraid I think you will be disapointed.

Average attendances are probably due to the fact they have introduced us and Saflord who don't have great figures and will bring the attendance down accordingly. I will make my judgement regarding us after the summer. I think we might draw better crowds once union and football is finished. It is a straight battle then for the sporting public between us and Glamorgan CCC. This is not a direct contest either as a lot of the large attendances are at the cricket on a Friday night for 20/20.

: Thu May 14, 2009 3:00 pm  

crucrucrusaders wrote:

Average attendances are probably due to the fact they have introduced us and Saflord who don't have great figures and will bring the attendance down accordingly. I will make my judgement regarding us after the summer. I think we might draw better crowds once union and football is finished. It is a straight battle then for the sporting public between us and Glamorgan CCC. This is not a direct contest either as a lot of the large attendances are at the cricket on a Friday night for 20/20.

Actually, I was comparing like for like (ie excluding games involving the two new clubs). the biggest fall has been at Wigan and (% wise) Quins. In fairness to Wigan though, their fans in the last two season have been amazing given the comparative lack of success.

I don't think Celtic can be judged on this season - your team is simply too uncompetitive and not likely to attract in the crowds yet. You need a win against one of the big boys. Good luck.

: Thu May 14, 2009 5:39 pm  

manxviking wrote:

I disagree. The finances don't add up. Licensing will lead to huge financial problems because as the Welsh regions have found out in the Magners League, lack of relegation means a surfeit of meaningless games so attendances drop. Add to that the British need for a fear of relegation and I think pretty quickly the RFL will have no alternative but to abandon the idea.

If P&R ever returns, it will be with a fully professional second tier/SL2. The only way to placate SL clubs into accepting the possibility of relegation now will be if they'd still get a half decent t.v deal when they went down and were playing in a pro comp. The crowds aren't that bad in the Championship, if you could get another 8-10 lower league teams together with facilities like Widnes + Leigh's then we might be on to something. I think a fully pro SL2 full of teams with decent facilities and alright crowds could get an alrightish t.v deal from sky.

: Thu May 14, 2009 6:13 pm  

I wouldn't care how it's branded Dan. I just want a return to P+R!!

: Thu May 14, 2009 9:49 pm  

yh crucrucru i best not go to it because i got a maths exam the following day. sorry. thanks for the offer though. Harlequins i might.

: Thu May 14, 2009 9:53 pm  

maths exam? can you count above 10 without taking off your shoes and socks? then you'll be fine

: Fri May 15, 2009 9:13 am  

Dan155 wrote:

If P&R ever returns, it will be with a fully professional second tier/SL2. The only way to placate SL clubs into accepting the possibility of relegation now will be if they'd still get a half decent t.v deal when they went down and were playing in a pro comp. The crowds aren't that bad in the Championship, if you could get another 8-10 lower league teams together with facilities like Widnes + Leigh's then we might be on to something. I think a fully pro SL2 full of teams with decent facilities and alright crowds could get an alrightish t.v deal from sky.

Like the English RFU is doing - not a bad idea at all in my opinion.

But at the moment, we scarecely look like a Championship club let alone an SL club

: Tue May 19, 2009 1:16 pm  

Dan155 wrote:

If P&R ever returns, it will be with a fully professional second tier/SL2. The only way to placate SL clubs into accepting the possibility of relegation now will be if they'd still get a half decent t.v deal when they went down and were playing in a pro comp. The crowds aren't that bad in the Championship, if you could get another 8-10 lower league teams together with facilities like Widnes + Leigh's then we might be on to something. I think a fully pro SL2 full of teams with decent facilities and alright crowds could get an alrightish t.v deal from sky.

This could be the most sensible post ever made.

The preceived problem of P&R was of promoted teams not being competitive in SL (overlooking the fact that they were, until the NL GF was put back beyond the end of the SL season... but that's another story...), and of the inabiility of SL teams to financially plan for the long term with the threat of a financially-crippling relegation looming.

The solution, instead of having one top-heavy expensive league and one part time league, is to have two full time leagues managed with scaleable costs.

14 SL teams + Widnes, Leigh, Whitehaven, Halifax, Tolouse Olympique, and then five more.... parse any from Sheffield, Gateshead, Donny, Fev, Hemel, London Skolars, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dublin, Belfast, Leicester, Gloucester, Bath, Exeter... basically, the proven heartland clubs with facilities and a following, and the aspirational development clubs and/or RU-dual code franchises.

Split into 2 divisions of 12, cut the season by 4 games, run Magic Weekend for SL1 on the 1st bank holiday, and an equivalent for SL2 on the 2nd bank holiday (Blackpool? London? Newcastle?), make it one-up-one-down, add a system for promotion/re-election into SL2 for the very bottom club, and Bob's your uncle.

: Tue May 19, 2009 10:41 pm  

Wembley71 wrote:

:CLAP:

This could be the most sensible post ever made.

The preceived problem of P&R was of promoted teams not being competitive in SL (overlooking the fact that they were, until the NL GF was put back beyond the end of the SL season... but that's another story...), and of the inabiility of SL teams to financially plan for the long term with the threat of a financially-crippling relegation looming.

The solution, instead of having one top-heavy expensive league and one part time league, is to have two full time leagues managed with scaleable costs.

14 SL teams + Widnes, Leigh, Whitehaven, Halifax, Tolouse Olympique, and then five more.... parse any from Sheffield, Gateshead, Donny, Fev, Hemel, London Skolars, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dublin, Belfast, Leicester, Gloucester, Bath, Exeter... basically, the proven heartland clubs with facilities and a following, and the aspirational development clubs and/or RU-dual code franchises.

Split into 2 divisions of 12, cut the season by 4 games, run Magic Weekend for SL1 on the 1st bank holiday, and an equivalent for SL2 on the 2nd bank holiday (Blackpool? London? Newcastle?), make it one-up-one-down, add a system for promotion/re-election into SL2 for the very bottom club, and Bob's your uncle.

Sounds like a good idea to me

: Wed May 20, 2009 3:35 pm  

Wembley71 wrote:

:CLAP:

This could be the most sensible post ever made.

The preceived problem of P&R was of promoted teams not being competitive in SL (overlooking the fact that they were, until the NL GF was put back beyond the end of the SL season... but that's another story...), and of the inabiility of SL teams to financially plan for the long term with the threat of a financially-crippling relegation looming.

The solution, instead of having one top-heavy expensive league and one part time league, is to have two full time leagues managed with scaleable costs.

14 SL teams + Widnes, Leigh, Whitehaven, Halifax, Tolouse Olympique, and then five more.... parse any from Sheffield, Gateshead, Donny, Fev, Hemel, London Skolars, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dublin, Belfast, Leicester, Gloucester, Bath, Exeter... basically, the proven heartland clubs with facilities and a following, and the aspirational development clubs and/or RU-dual code franchises.

Split into 2 divisions of 12, cut the season by 4 games, run Magic Weekend for SL1 on the 1st bank holiday, and an equivalent for SL2 on the 2nd bank holiday (Blackpool? London? Newcastle?), make it one-up-one-down, add a system for promotion/re-election into SL2 for the very bottom club, and Bob's your uncle.

In principle, I agree but I think Barrow would have a say in that and possibly Oldham too. Additionally and heretically, I would amalgamate the French Elite League into the Championship or SL2. We need to take a long hard look at what the RFU is doing because I genuinely think that is the way forward.

Oh - good luck this week Celtic.