Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Sat May 04, 2019 2:35 pm  

Hang on, though; surely what people are advocating here is the system we used to have, where the ref didn't have to make a call on-field, and could send it straight to the VR. And then the complaint was that we got too many VR calls, slowing up the game.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the formulation they use in RU seems the best compromise to me; we should use that. Either "Any reason I can't award the try?" or "Try or no try?"

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Sat May 04, 2019 4:06 pm  

moto748 wrote:

Hang on, though; surely what people are advocating here is the system we used to have, where the ref didn't have to make a call on-field, and could send it straight to the VR. And then the complaint was that we got too many VR calls, slowing up the game.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the formulation they use in RU seems the best compromise to me; we should use that. Either "Any reason I can't award the try?" or "Try or no try?"

Exactly this.

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

We do have the technology and we should use it.... correctly. Unfortunately we don't. Neither is the case that if the video ref is unsure it goes back to the ref. Again, that would be the correct way to use it but unfortunately we don't do that either. Instead we do the exact opposite by having the ref give his decision then challenge the video ref to overturn it with the proviso that "we don't really want you to contradict the on field decision anyway". Bizarre!

As it stands it's there to support the ref's decision unless there is sufficient evidence to overturn it. The problem is, as with all phrases of this nature, the word sufficient is open to interpretation. The wording (at least according to how we currently implement it) should be 'overwhelming' rather than 'sufficient'.

The phrase 'it went up as a try therefore it will be given' or similar has now become a part of the rugby league vernacular. So much so that people such as yourself think it isn't open to question. Yet common sense tells us that that is no way to arrive at a impartial decision. By its very nature it is already going to the video ref with a bias one way or the other. It defies, not only logic, but the very reason d'etre for introducing the video ref in the first place.

But I do think it is open to question, the ref says I think it is a try or no try he asks the VR to confirm, if he has sufficient evidence to overturn it he does, if not then the ref call stands, which makes it more fair on the non televised games, as they can only rely on the onfield decision

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Sun May 05, 2019 2:41 am  

hatty wrote:

The ref should send it up to the video if he isn't sure, but he shouldn't send it up with the words "I've got a try" or "I've got no try" if he sends it to the video ref then it is down to them then to make the call and the ref is out of the equation. If the video ref can see the ball being grounded (with downward pressure) then its a try simple, but the key is downward pressure and not if the little pinky grazed it. If the video ref can't see the ball or his view is completely obscured then it goes down to the ref who then makes the try/ no try call.
The decision of try / no try shouldn't be made before the video ref has had chance to review it

No. If the ref has sent it to the VR,then why send it back to the ref when he wasn't sure in the first place?

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Sun May 05, 2019 12:04 pm  

Cokey wrote:

No. If the ref has sent it to the VR,then why send it back to the ref when he wasn't sure in the first place?

Agreed. If the on-field ref is unsure, and the VR is unsure, it should be No Try. And lets have none of this BOTD rubbish; the principle should be, both for on-field and video ref, "If you can't see it, you can't give it".

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Mon May 06, 2019 9:34 am  

moto748 wrote:

Agreed. If the on-field ref is unsure, and the VR is unsure, it should be No Try. And lets have none of this BOTD rubbish; the principle should be, both for on-field and video ref, "If you can't see it, you can't give it".

Do not misunderstand me. When I say BOTD I am talking about calls like the Hardaker and Broncos no try and by extension the England v Aus of a few years back where the argument is was there enough downward pressure. Anything else would have been an easy yes or no. I agree that you cannot give a grounding that you cannot see but once again that is easier if the game is televised and I hate to see different rules for televised matches.

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Mon May 06, 2019 12:06 pm  

Warrior Winger wrote:

But I do think it is open to question, the ref says I think it is a try or no try he asks the VR to confirm, if he has sufficient evidence to overturn it he does, if not then the ref call stands, which makes it more fair on the non televised games, as they can only rely on the onfield decision

But you're making the assumption that the ref sends it up as a try/no try because he has seen enough to make a reasoned decision. Under those circumstances I would agree that it's fine. Unfortunately, under the present system, he has to make a decision even if he hasn't the first clue! The onus on the video ref is then then to confirm this guess unless the evidence is overwhelming the other way. As I say, that is no way to arrive at the correct decision (and after all, that is the supposed purpose of ANY system of this type).

How many times per round could you say "if that had gone up as a try it would have been given" (or vice versa)? In fact how many times PER GAME can you say it? Barely a match goes by where this isn't the case. This alone tells you the system is flawed.

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Tue May 07, 2019 1:00 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

But you're making the assumption that the ref sends it up as a try/no try because he has seen enough to make a reasoned decision. Under those circumstances I would agree that it's fine. Unfortunately, under the present system, he has to make a decision even if he hasn't the first clue! The onus on the video ref is then then to confirm this guess unless the evidence is overwhelming the other way. As I say, that is no way to arrive at the correct decision (and after all, that is the supposed purpose of ANY system of this type).

How many times per round could you say "if that had gone up as a try it would have been given" (or vice versa)? In fact how many times PER GAME can you say it? Barely a match goes by where this isn't the case. This alone tells you the system is flawed.

The ref has to make a decision on every potential try with or without a VR, countless tries are scored where the ball is not visable to the ref and even the VR, but the ref has to make a call based on what he believes, the VR is just an extra official to help make the right decision, just like when he consults a TJ