: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:40 pm  

I've just had a chance to watch the highlights on the super league website, and I've NEVER witnessed such poor defense from a super league outfit. EVER!

We wouldn't have beaten an amature side today. We fell of tackles all over the show and just couldn't defend. It was painful to watch.

: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:07 pm  

Hoofer wrote:

Cruncher, Don't totally disagree, but the solution will medium or long term, not short term.
We had some damn successful coaches from elsewhere back in the 70's slump who could do nothing at Wigan because of the shambles the club was in.
Vince Karalius told me it wasn't until he'd ben hired that they told him he didn't pick the team!

Yeah, but to be fair, that isn't happening now.

I don't know exactly what goes on behind the scenes at Wigan, but several aspects of the club which previously were a disaster are now running pretty well. Marketing, communications etc, being good examples.

Okay, that's not the only important thing. But I don't think you can really blame the chairman for dreadful team performances without some hard facts to back it up. I've never seen any evidence that there is interference in team matters from the top floor. Quite the contrary. One of the coaching staff said to me recently: "Nobby runs everything." Recruitment is apparently a joint-effort. Noble is never left out of it, which is something that happened more than once during the Lindsay / Robinson / Monie era (the signing of Andrew Farrar being a classic example).

One of the problems in the Vince Karalius days was that the club wouldn't spend any money. When John Bevan was in dispute with Warrington and they put him on the transfer list at £20,000 - an absolute steal, even in the mid-70s - Wigan decided it was too expensive. These days, while we might not be prepared to pay £250,000 + for players, we still spend right up to the salary cap. We don't skimp, and have got a sizeable squad as a result (most of whom, on paper at least, are better than average).

For me, one of the most worrying incidents in recent times was the bollocking that IL gave the players after the Huddersfield game last year. He got slagged off for it in some quarters, even though it apparently galvanised the team into reaching the GF semi, but my main concern was why was the head-coach not doing that? Are IL's bollockings more effective than Nobby's? Is he more committed to Wigan than Nobby?

That's the impression I get sometimes. An impression reinforced by Nobby's regular bleatings to the press, which seem to signify that his personal wrangle with the chairman is more important to him than the club's public profile.

But even if you don't like IL and can produce factual evidence as to why he's bad for Wigan, wanting him out is likely to be a futile exercise. He owns us. And even if he decides to sell, I can't see buyers queuing up during a recession. Big Dave would probably step back in, and God help us then.

: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:42 pm  

I think there are 2 things going on here.


The first is the slow strangulation of the game by the CC. The reality is that it severly impacts the ability of teams to attract the top talent (from RU as well as retain it/attract it to RL), and manage non-performance within the team through an inability to drop players (and field a competitive team)

This holds true for ALL RL clubs, not just Wigan.


Therefore, this brings us onto point 2- what has happened to Wigan.

I have to agree with the poster who said that there is a lack of "togetherness" at Wigan. There was once a time players would give their right arms to pull on the C&W. Not anymore it would seem. In fact not for some time.

As DeanoG said, I criticised him at the start of the season for his calls to get rid of Nobby. If there was one coach in the UK who could stamp out this behaviour, I thought Nobby was that man. It appears that he isn't that man, as I am damm sure that attitude still exists.

Therefore I have come to the conclusion that unless we cut out this cancer of mediocrity within the club, it won't matter who coaches us, we can expect more of the same.

If a new coach can do that then fine. I am just worried that we will swap a very successful coach who cannot stop it for a less successful one who also cannot stop it.

: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:45 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I fail to see the issue. Tompkins is a kid. He needs to be protected and thus will have to sit out some games (as Wheeler, Eastmond, Lomax, Ashurst et al are at Saints). Noble's only doing what any sensible coach would.

That's probably the most sensible thing you've ever posted.

: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:54 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

That's probably the most sensible thing you've ever posted.

It's certainly the least confrontational, and on this occasion I have to agree with him. Though I also agree with the other poster, who said that Saints need to field their youngsters less than Wigan, because their first line is stronger.

: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:01 pm  

Batesy wrote:

I've just had a chance to watch the highlights on the super league website, and I've NEVER witnessed such poor defense from a super league outfit. EVER!

We wouldn't have beaten an amature side today. We fell of tackles all over the show and just couldn't defend. It was painful to watch.

Whilst I agree we were poor it's impossible to judge a game on 4 minutes of "highlights"

: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:11 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Whilst I agree we were poor it's impossible to judge a game on 4 minutes of "highlights"

Or a coach on two years of lowlights?

: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:48 am  

I'm late to the party, but totally agree with Hogan.

It's so boring watching us play week-in, week-out. I realised against Warrington away, that if a team makes all their tackles against us we will lose as we have no invention to open up the line and create space for runners. Take out Sam T and Gaz Hock, the only two who have any air of magic about them and we are screwed. I go misty eyed at the thought of Barrett wearing the No. 6 jersey!

Was talking to my Dad during the game and we both agreed that every team in the league plays better rugby than us. No shape, no moves, no invention. All we do is hope for the best that something will come off in the game. Watching Quins blast KR away the night before by playing an absolutely perfect game of RL just made Saturday even worse. We define mediocre at the moment.

: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:08 pm  

Cruncher
it wasn't my intention to blame the chairman solely for the state of the team, more to point out the need for "root and branch" reform. I don't know enough about him to be any more specific.
I do think he presides over a culture of mediocrity at the moment. Whether he finds it acceptable and whether he'll do anything about it only time will tell.

: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:38 pm  

XBrettKennyX wrote:

I think there are 2 things going on here.

The first is the slow strangulation of the game by the CC. The reality is that it severly impacts the ability of teams to attract the top talent (from RU as well as retain it/attract it to RL), and manage non-performance within the team through an inability to drop players (and field a competitive team)

So are Gidley, Lyon, Barrett, Fielden (when you signed him), Webb, King, Rauhihi, Puletua, Menzies etc not top talent then?

This holds true for ALL RL clubs, not just Wigan.

See above.

Therefore, this brings us onto point 2- what has happened to Wigan.

I have to agree with the poster who said that there is a lack of "togetherness" at Wigan. There was once a time players would give their right arms to pull on the C&W. Not anymore it would seem. In fact not for some time.

As DeanoG said, I criticised him at the start of the season for his calls to get rid of Nobby. If there was one coach in the UK who could stamp out this behaviour, I thought Nobby was that man. It appears that he isn't that man, as I am damm sure that attitude still exists.

Therefore I have come to the conclusion that unless we cut out this cancer of mediocrity within the club, it won't matter who coaches us, we can expect more of the same.

If a new coach can do that then fine. I am just worried that we will swap a very successful coach who cannot stop it for a less successful one who also cannot stop it.

The problem is simple. Your forwards aren't good/consistent enough. You spent all that money on Barrett, Riddell, Roberts, Smith, Feka, Pryce and Gleeson when what you really needed was at least two decent prop forwards to help out Fielden, Hock and O'Loughlin. Basically, you haven't scratched were it itches!!!!