Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:19 am  

WF Rhino wrote:

What worries me about Sutcliffe is he seems to be going backwards. When he made his debut no matter what position he played he made a positive contribution to the team.

This is very true though in fairness the team wasn't struggling in the same way as it was last year. And he's hardly alone in making relatively few recent positive contributions; there are players with far more experience who also give the appearance of having gone backwards. Probably a confidence thing.

Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:13 am  

Clearwing wrote:

This is very true though in fairness the team wasn't struggling in the same way as it was last year. And he's hardly alone in making relatively few recent positive contributions; there are players with far more experience who also give the appearance of having gone backwards. Probably a confidence thing.

That's very true and with the current lack of structure in the side it is a difficult place to regain confidence for anyone. I do hope he can claw back some form because he has massive potential and I would hate to see it wasted.

Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:22 pm  

But for Ward's pass straying forward and Makinson's outstanding cover defence, Sutcliffe would have had two great tries. In an incredibly tight game, against very very disciplined defence, Im not sure what people expect from him.

Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:07 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

But for Ward's pass straying forward and Makinson's outstanding cover defence, Sutcliffe would have had two great tries. In an incredibly tight game, against very very disciplined defence, Im not sure what people expect from him.

It is a game of fine margins. There was also a good read from Fages to intercept a pass from Sutty that looked like it'd give Ward a walk in.

The problem with his performance is that all that adds up to a bad one, he didn't manage the game, and was caught several times on the last in good ball. The same can however, can be said of Burrow. As a whole the halfback combo didn't work, and its unfair to lay all that on sutty.

Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:33 pm  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

By creative do you mean running? He hasn't got any kind of creative passing game at all.

The solution whether from inside or outside the club is an actual halfback.

He can run and kick well near the line. Agree he is not John Holmes with ball in hand but Can draw and pass well and out of the tackle. I'm making an assumption that oodles of cash for a new signing won't be forthcoming and internal options are limited.

Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:56 pm  

Barrie's Glass Eye wrote:

It is a game of fine margins. There was also a good read from Fages to intercept a pass from Sutty that looked like it'd give Ward a walk in.

The problem with his performance is that all that adds up to a bad one, he didn't manage the game, and was caught several times on the last in good ball. The same can however, can be said of Burrow. As a whole the halfback combo didn't work, and its unfair to lay all that on sutty.

Does it? Im not sure it does. Outside Fages tackle count i thought Sutcliffe was the best half on the pitch. As i said, Saints were incredibly disciplined defensively and the game was very very tight. Same game, another day, we win. Most games, we play like that, we win. If leigh defend like they did against Cas and we play how we did, we win comfortably.

Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:04 pm  

I disagree. neither leeds half back created a thing and the attacking kicks, mainly which were by burrow, were dreadful

Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:06 pm  

Both Leeds half backs were abysmal. They didn't have an ounce of creativity within them.

Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:13 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Does it? Im not sure it does. Outside Fages tackle count i thought Sutcliffe was the best half on the pitch. As i said, Saints were incredibly disciplined defensively and the game was very very tight. Same game, another day, we win. Most games, we play like that, we win. If leigh defend like they did against Cas and we play how we did, we win comfortably.

I certainly agree that performances like that against less defensively disciplined opposition will probably lead to more wins than losses and Saints deserve some credit for that, but in general we offered very little in the final twenty, there was the little drop off play to a half, trying to barge over one or two out from the ruck, and in general little imagination. That, (apart from coaching) falls to the halves. Like I said Sutty also got caught ball in hand a fair few times on the 5th when we should have been looking to kick and turn the screw.

It was poor, and maybe the inability to finish the set properly cost us the game, but the responsibility for that doesn't/shouldn't lie solely with Sutty.

Re: RD 1 | St Helens v Leeds Rhinos : Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:57 pm  

Barrie's Glass Eye wrote:

I certainly agree that performances like that against less defensively disciplined opposition will probably lead to more wins than losses and Saints deserve some credit for that, but in general we offered very little in the final twenty, there was the little drop off play to a half, trying to barge over one or two out from the ruck, and in general little imagination. That, (apart from coaching) falls to the halves. Like I said Sutty also got caught ball in hand a fair few times on the 5th when we should have been looking to kick and turn the screw.

It was poor, and maybe the inability to finish the set properly cost us the game, but the responsibility for that doesn't/shouldn't lie solely with Sutty.

i think there is a strong argument that we decided to run it on the last as a tactic to limit the amount of 7tackle sets given away. I would however agree that our last tackle options arent our strongest part of the game and werent last week.

I also dont think we werent creative, i think we were far more creative than Saints, we had Watkins getting through a couple of times, Sutty backing up, the disallowed try, the play that went from the middle to the right wing, all the way back across the left, all the way back across to the right and must have been about 20 passes and included a lovely flat pass from Sutcliffe to Watkins, then a massive booming pass again from Sutcliffe, Parcell got a few half-breaks,