Re: Recruitment and retention : Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:07 pm  

Wilde 3 wrote:

I like Lane, runs good lines and hits hard. People forget the bad injury he had last year

yes he has the best defence of all the younger second row players.
For me Downs has potential and size but needs to bulk up.Has good speed so worth another year to see if he develops with regular rugby at Doncaster.
Lane definately worth another year.
Turgut i would retain but get him out on loan so he plays regularly.I still think he thinks he is better than he is.Had a strong game against Saints but needs to back it up
Washbrook has done a good job but dont see the point of retaining him even on a reduced contract.Would be way down the selection line if everyone is fit next season.
Fash works hard but as has been said he is too small for a front row.Destined for future Championship rugby

Re: Recruitment and retention : Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:42 pm  

hull2524 wrote:

yes but fash is a prop, not knocking any of them but cant remember them breaking a tackle or making good yards, only masi has the physical edge what we need, bienek will also provide that impact of the bench,

Fash is a utility forward, he isn't a prop in the traditional sense, he has basically taken over the Thompson role. He's a grafter, he gets stuck in and never takes a backwards step. Is he the biggest, not by a long chalk, is he committed, absolutely, rarely has a bad game and attitude mature beyond his years. People who can't see what he offers other than the fact he lacks size should maybe have a look at similar players that have adorned our club and plenty of others. Keith Boxhall is a very good example, small but nimble and never took a backward step, personally I think Fash is in exactly the same mould, I'd be definitely keeping him and having him on the bench as a first XVII more often than not.
Funny how people slagged Thompson off but made (IIRC) 50% more tackles and similar metres gained/carry to Pritchard and was asked to play as a prop down the middle but was brought to the club as a utility back, ridiculously underated for what he did by comparison to others salary wise.

Re: Recruitment and retention : Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:08 pm  

Another renewal to be announced soon I hear

Re: Recruitment and retention : Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:59 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

Fash is a utility forward, he isn't a prop in the traditional sense, he has basically taken over the Thompson role. He's a grafter, he gets stuck in and never takes a backwards step. Is he the biggest, not by a long chalk, is he committed, absolutely, rarely has a bad game and attitude mature beyond his years. People who can't see what he offers other than the fact he lacks size should maybe have a look at similar players that have adorned our club and plenty of others. Keith Boxhall is a very good example, small but nimble and never took a backward step, personally I think Fash is in exactly the same mould, I'd be definitely keeping him and having him on the bench as a first XVII more often than not.
Funny how people slagged Thompson off but made (IIRC) 50% more tackles and similar metres gained/carry to Pritchard and was asked to play as a prop down the middle but was brought to the club as a utility back, ridiculously underated for what he did by comparison to others salary wise.

Some questions on this

How much was Thompson on, I ask because he was highly rated at Vas who wanted to keep him, so I'd doubt he was on a low salary?

Why compare him to Pritchard (a player who took plenty of criticism)is that what we need to do with any Hull forward?

Why do you think no other SL clubs signed Thompson when he became available?

As for Fash, decent squad player but certainly wouldn't get in my strongest 17, I'd have a bench of Hadley, Paea, Bowden and Grffin or Carlos. Who would you drop for Fash?

I'd also have Masi in front of Fash.

Re: Recruitment and retention : Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:05 pm  

Dave K. wrote:

Some questions on this

How much was Thompson on, I ask because he was highly rated at Vas who wanted to keep him, so I'd doubt he was on a low salary?

Why compare him to Pritchard (a player who took plenty of criticism)is that what we need to do with any Hull forward?

Why do you think no other SL clubs signed Thompson when he became available?

As for Fash, decent squad player but certainly wouldn't get in my strongest 17, I'd have a bench of Hadley, Paea, Bowden and Grffin or Carlos. Who would you drop for Fash?

I'd also have Masi in front of Fash.

I like Fash I love his commitment and not willing to take a backward step. But I would also put Lewis Bienek in front of him and that’s without even seen him for Hull yet. He’s certainly an impact player and that’s what we’re clearly missing.

Re: Recruitment and retention : Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:08 pm  

Dave K. wrote:

Some questions on this

How much was Thompson on, I ask because he was highly rated at Vas who wanted to keep him, so I'd doubt he was on a low salary?

Why compare him to Pritchard (a player who took plenty of criticism)is that what we need to do with any Hull forward?

Why do you think no other SL clubs signed Thompson when he became available?

As for Fash, decent squad player but certainly wouldn't get in my strongest 17, I'd have a bench of Hadley, Paea, Bowden and Grffin or Carlos. Who would you drop for Fash?

I'd also have Masi in front of Fash.

I don't know, but he wasn't a top earner, the fact his departure made little to no impact in SC as mentioned by most on here would suggest that is accurate.
What has Thompson not signing for another club got to do with anything? I spoke about his endeavour relative to his salary at the time, he gave more Vfm than Pritchard yet it was Thompson getting slated far more often than Pritchard. The comparison is to show that players whom are seen as squad players often contribute as much and sometimes more than their big name counterparts and are just as valuable to the team. This insistence on buying/bringing in players from outside the club is why the youth system has failed to produce, why we have inexperienced back ups from that youth system and not a lot of cap to play with. Fash and the others are an integral part of the team but it's showing up now how relatively little game time/experience they've had.
You drop or loan out players like Fash, Lane etc and you knock their confidence, they develop slows comparative to when at the top level.

As it happens I'd rather have Fash in a full strength team than I would Matongo or Lane, I did say more often than nit but then injuries, the rest of the team and the opposition and indeed time of the year can have an impact on who plays and when. he's made 50% more tackle busts than Matongo has this year, so much for being too small! It's fairly moot anyway as there will always be injuries even before the season starts, the fact Radford has included Fash in most games before his injury (14 from a possible 17 league and cup games) shows you how he rates him, maybe you should have a word with Radford and tell him he's playing the wrong player??

As for the others, I'd have him in front of Griffin for a start off IF we are using a forward on the bench, the fact we have to consider Griffin on the bench shows how the squad is imbalanced, but then when/if Kelly goes after 2019 and Connor likely moving to 6 permanently would allow Griffin to play in the starting XIII at his best position, it certainly isn't as a utility forward, much as the nonsense about Yeaman being touted on here as a 2nd rower. Hadley is a starter isn't he (he's far better than Westerman) and Paea is inconsistent, can be great, can be average but then he is on a much bigger wage than the likes of Matongo, Fash, Lane, Turgut combined.

As I said, my point is that if we farm these kids out to replace them with players from outside the club they develop at a slower rate and get disenfranchised, in the backs they simply don't get a chance, in the forwards more so but yet again we've brought in Westerman to replace Watts, why, well it wasn't down to the pony regarding discipline, that's just a cover story but it highlights the fact that we needed to move to get someone because our kids just don't have the experience to step up to fill that gap.
I was hoping we didn't resign Westerman, Washbrook or Talanoa for next year and indeed I was in two minds as to let Kelly go too.

Re: Recruitment and retention : Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:35 pm  

[quote="knockersbumpMKII"]I don't know, but he wasn't a top earner, the fact his departure made little to no impact in SC as mentioned by most on here would suggest that is accurate.
What has Thompson not signing for another club got to do with anything? I spoke about his endeavour relative to his salary at the time, he gave more Vfm than Pritchard yet it was Thompson getting slated far more often than Pritchard. The comparison is to show that players whom are seen as squad players often contribute as much and sometimes more than their big name counterparts and are just as valuable to the team. This insistence on buying/bringing in players from outside the club is why the youth system has failed to produce, why we have inexperienced back ups from that youth system and not a lot of cap to play with. Fash and the others are an integral part of the team but it's showing up now how relatively little game time/experience they've had.
You drop or loan out players like Fash, Lane etc and you knock their confidence, they develop slows comparative to when at the top level.

As it happens I'd rather have Fash in a full strength team than I would Matongo or Lane, I did say more often than nit but then injuries, the rest of the team and the opposition and indeed time of the year can have an impact on who plays and when. he's made 50% more tackle busts than Matongo has this year, so much for being too small! It's fairly moot anyway as there will always be injuries even before the season starts, the fact Radford has included Fash in most games before his injury (14 from a possible 17 league and cup games) shows you how he rates him, maybe you should have a word with Radford and tell him he's playing the wrong player??

As for the others, I'd have him in front of Griffin for a start off IF we are using a forward on the bench, the fact we have to consider Griffin on the bench shows how the squad is imbalanced, but then when/if Kelly goes after 2019 and Connor likely moving to 6 permanently would allow Griffin to play in the starting XIII at his best position, it certainly isn't as a utility forward, much as the nonsense about Yeaman being touted on here as a 2nd rower. Hadley is a starter isn't he (he's far better than Westerman) and Paea is inconsistent, can be great, can be average but then he is on a much bigger wage than the likes of Matongo, Fash, Lane, Turgut combined.

As I said, my point is that if we farm these kids out to replace them with players from outside the club they develop at a slower rate and get disenfranchised, in the backs they simply don't get a chance, in the forwards more so but yet again we've brought in Westerman to replace Watts, why, well it wasn't down to the pony regarding discipline, that's just a cover story but it highlights the fact that we needed to move to get someone because our kids just don't have the experience to step up to fill that gap.
I was hoping we didn't resign Westerman, Washbrook or Talanoa for next year and indeed I was in two minds as to let Kelly go too.[/quote

So you have no idea what earnt and your guesswork is based on some posts on here, he wasn't value for money IMO, he was average and offered less than the likes of Fash and Masi.

The only criticism I saw of Thomo was he wasn't good enough for a team who wants to challenge, he tried Hard, but after a good first season, just didn't perform consistency well enough to play for a top 8 side and that's the reason he is playing in the championship.

Our young players are good enough, but playing either too many if them at once you are always going to struggle, plus they are playing too many games, Radford is doing a great job handling their development, you even agree with this by saying how many games Fash is playing.

I like Hadley, but Westerman offers more IMO, ideally I have Mini off the bench, but don't see Radford doing that.

No idea what you are talking about with regards to Watts and Westy it doesn't make any sense.

Seriously you need to try and watch a fee games to form opinions of them rather than the stats websites, which don't tell the full story.

Imagine our squad next season minus Talanoa, Westy and Kelly, who ]
Would you play or sign instead of them?

Re: Recruitment and retention : Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:41 am  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

As it happens I'd rather have Fash in a full strength team than I would Matongo or Lane, I did say more often than nit but then injuries, the rest of the team and the opposition and indeed time of the year can have an impact on who plays and when. he's made 50% more tackle busts than Matongo has this year, so much for being too small! I

Talk about selective stats. What you don't mention is that Masi has gained more metres at a higher average gain and defensively has made more tackles and missed less. Potential can be a double edged word at times but it seems obvious to most that Masi has the higher ceiling of the 2 thanks to his larger frame as well as being currently that bit better.

Re: Recruitment and retention : Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:26 am  

If i'm brutally honest, don't think any of our current youngsters are good enough, and can't see any of them making the 17 on a regular basis with fully a fit squad , disappointing we don't have any real stand out youngsters considering the amount of game time and opportunities

Re: Recruitment and retention : Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:07 pm  

so you don't think masi is good enough? even though hes in the England knights squad and still only a baby as far as a prop goes, also think harris will only get better, scott also will come on leaps and bounds imo, litten could also well make the jump up in the next few years,