Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Fri May 03, 2019 12:24 pm  

In the absence of a video ref though most of the tries scored in those circumstances are guesses by the referee, whether he guesses a try or no try, so by getting rid of them you are only going back to a best guess

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Fri May 03, 2019 12:34 pm  

I thought it was a try and I thought last weeks was a try with Hardaker. Both decisions have affectively been given off the refs hunch which imo should have no bearing on the decision as he clearly isn’t sure as he’s sent it to the video ref.

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Fri May 03, 2019 12:44 pm  

In my opinion the idea of giving the ref the try no try on field is to put the emphasis on who is controlling the game, ultimately if the VR can't make a definitive decision then it has to go to what the ref thinks, and in the current set up the ref gives that decision before rather than after the VR looks at it so technically it is the same outcome

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Fri May 03, 2019 1:02 pm  

Warrior Winger wrote:

in the current set up the ref gives that decision before rather than after the VR looks at it so technically it is the same outcome

I don't agree.

The current setup means that the VR's decision is not only swayed by the ref (who obviously didn't see it clearly), but that the decision has already been made, barring 100% proof that it was wrong.

This offers zero "benefit of the doubt", but also, the VR is reluctant to overturn the on-field ref's decision without overwhelming evidence (and sometimes, not even then).

I have always been of the opinion that if he didn't see it, he shouldn't offer an opinion on it.

The VR should be the sole arbiter of any "unknown" calls, with benefit of the doubt to the attacking side.

So basically, back to what we had a few years back.

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Fri May 03, 2019 1:10 pm  

Pie Eyed wrote:

This offers zero "benefit of the doubt", but also, the VR is reluctant to overturn the on-field ref's decision without overwhelming evidence (and sometimes, not even then).

See Tony Clubb at Wembley.

The BOD rule used to annoy me in the fact that if you can't see that a try has been scored then you can't give a try IMO. David Solomona at Bradford on half time in the playoffs being an example that LUCKILY didn't effect the result of the game. 4 or 5 angles and not one shows the ball being grounded but we were punished for outstanding defence.

The RU model is the one to follow for me. The referee sends it up, watches on the screen discussing it with the VR and then they come to a decision.

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Fri May 03, 2019 1:13 pm  

Warrior Winger wrote:

In the absence of a video ref though most of the tries scored in those circumstances are guesses by the referee, whether he guesses a try or no try, so by getting rid of them you are only going back to a best guess

That is exactly the point I'm making. If it's a guess either way then the video ref is superfluous. Either give them the remit to properly use the tools at their disposal or get rid altogether and at least have the benefit of speeding the game up. To do neither is "rearranging the deckchairs."

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Fri May 03, 2019 1:15 pm  

Warrior Winger wrote:

In the absence of a video ref though most of the tries scored in those circumstances are guesses by the referee, whether he guesses a try or no try, so by getting rid of them you are only going back to a best guess

At least we are closer to all playing under the same rules though than it being dependent on whether you are on TV or not

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Fri May 03, 2019 4:51 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

That is exactly the point I'm making. If it's a guess either way then the video ref is superfluous. Either give them the remit to properly use the tools at their disposal or get rid altogether and at least have the benefit of speeding the game up. To do neither is "rearranging the deckchairs."

But in some instances it will prove beyond the shadow of a doubt if it was or wasn't a try so if we have the technology why not use it, if the VR is not sure then surely the decision has to go to the onfield ref which he has already given his opinion in advance

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Sat May 04, 2019 3:48 am  

Warrior Winger wrote:

But in some instances it will prove beyond the shadow of a doubt if it was or wasn't a try so if we have the technology why not use it, if the VR is not sure then surely the decision has to go to the onfield ref which he has already given his opinion in advance

We do have the technology and we should use it.... correctly. Unfortunately we don't. Neither is the case that if the video ref is unsure it goes back to the ref. Again, that would be the correct way to use it but unfortunately we don't do that either. Instead we do the exact opposite by having the ref give his decision then challenge the video ref to overturn it with the proviso that "we don't really want you to contradict the on field decision anyway". Bizarre!

As it stands it's there to support the ref's decision unless there is sufficient evidence to overturn it. The problem is, as with all phrases of this nature, the word sufficient is open to interpretation. The wording (at least according to how we currently implement it) should be 'overwhelming' rather than 'sufficient'.

The phrase 'it went up as a try therefore it will be given' or similar has now become a part of the rugby league vernacular. So much so that people such as yourself think it isn't open to question. Yet common sense tells us that that is no way to arrive at a impartial decision. By its very nature it is already going to the video ref with a bias one way or the other. It defies, not only logic, but the very reason d'etre for introducing the video ref in the first place.

Re: Sky TV Video ref etc : Sat May 04, 2019 10:48 am  

In the World Cup in 2017, the referee and video referee communicated with each other. I recall in the England vs Australia group match, a call was handed to Thaler (as video ref).

He started considering possible interference on a chaser and the referee told him he was happy with it and to move on. I would like to see a similar approach in Super League.

If a video referee can't tell, or its debatable, I don't see why he couldn't just say to the ref, what did you see, how confident are you? The ref could then say whether he had a good view, or was unsighted.

At the moment, we have a situation where a call can go up as a no try, say on the basis of an obstruction, yet be disallowed because of a questionable grounding, when the referee didn't ask for that to be checked on the assumption of a "no try" on field call and sufficient evidence therefore being needed that the grounding was fine.