Re: Man of the People : Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:00 am  

IR80 wrote:

The thing is, we disagree, but not argue. I respect your opinion on things, even if we don't share them.

IR80 wrote:

give up trying to be clever, nobody is impressed

Strange.

Anyhow - I tend to fall into the camp that thinks (hopes?) that AI can develop to operate collaboratively with humans; and I'm not convinced that it relies entirely on a total understanding of human intelligence - since machine learning works entirely differently to how we learn.

The unfortunate thing with a discussion like this, when it lands in the public sphere, is that the phenomenon of bad science almost always infects the discussion; for newspaper editors who don't understand the science, and probably don't want to, AI is not interesting unless you can include a picture of The Terminator, and spout prophecies of doom about the rise of the machines. As is often the case in mainstream media, most conversations are framed within a black and white logical fallacy, wherein the ongoing advancement of AI is either wholly good or wholly bad - and we don't get a chance to hear experts talk around it in a nuanced way.

Re: Man of the People : Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:06 pm  

bren2k wrote:

The unfortunate thing with a discussion like this, when it lands in the public sphere, is that the phenomenon of bad science almost always infects the discussion; for newspaper editors who don't understand the science, and probably don't want to, AI is not interesting unless you can include a picture of The Terminator, and spout prophecies of doom about the rise of the machines.

I can already see the Daily Express headline. Nostradamus made THIS prediction - AI is coming for YOUR JOBS

Re: Man of the People : Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:59 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

I can already see the Daily Express headline. Nostradamus made THIS prediction - AI is coming for YOUR JOBS

Pretty much - followed by a 4 minute TV debate, in which an expert AI scientist is opposed by a man in combat trousers and a tinfoil skullcap, who believes that mobile phones make you sterile, and Robot Wars is a secret training camp for our mechanical overlords.

Re: Man of the People : Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:40 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Pretty much - followed by a 4 minute TV debate, in which an expert AI scientist is opposed by a man in combat trousers and a tinfoil skullcap, who believes that mobile phones make you sterile, and Robot Wars is a secret training camp for our mechanical overlords.

What has happened to the hole in the ozone - I don't hear anything about this - scientists never stop looking for new stuff to scare everyone.

Re: Man of the People : Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:23 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What has happened to the hole in the ozone - I don't hear anything about this - scientists never stop looking for facts to inform everyone.

Fixed it for you.

I take it you're one of Michael Gove's brave new thinkers, who are sick of experts?

Re: Man of the People : Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:10 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote: What has happened to the hole in the ozone - I don't hear anything about this - scientists never stop looking for new stuff to scare everyone. https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/research/oz ... w=recovery

Sal Paradise wrote: What has happened to the hole in the ozone - I don't hear anything about this - scientists never stop looking for new stuff to scare everyone. https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/research/oz ... w=recovery

Re: Man of the People : Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:46 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What has happened to the hole in the ozone - I don't hear anything about this - scientists never stop looking for new stuff to scare everyone.

The last person on this forum to raise doubts about damage to the ozone layer was a flat earther.

You're not the latest incarnation of Flat Stanley, are you?

Re: Man of the People : Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:09 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

The last person on this forum to raise doubts about damage to the ozone layer was a flat earther.

You're not the latest incarnation of Flat Stanley, are you?

I never said it didn't exist - all I am saying is I don't hear any talk of it anymore. This planet has survived for billions of years - it has managed meteor strikes, ice ages, plate movements etc.

All you worshippers of princess Greta are akin to Flat Stanley - the idea that this planet wont survive another 50 years is a delusional thought. I hope your knees are not hurting that much.

Re: Man of the People : Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:37 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What has happened to the hole in the ozone - I don't hear anything about this - scientists never stop looking for new stuff to scare everyone.

That's because back in the halcyon days of the 80's, before the post-truth era and when scientists were actually listened to and respected, action was taken, which has largely resolved the problem:

DEFRA wrote:

The ozone depletion caused by human-produced chlorine and bromine compounds is expected to gradually disappear by about the middle of the 21st century as these compounds are slowly removed from the stratosphere by natural processes. This environmental achievement is due to the landmark international agreement to control the production and use of ozone-depleting substances. Full compliance would be required to achieve this expected recovery.

And your comments about Greta Thunberg are quite telling - instead of learning from history, when the combined efforts of many countries to tackle an environmental crisis actually worked, people like you would rather attack a 16 year old girl and deny the reality of the situation and the scientific consensus, because somehow, caring about the planet we all inhabit has become a left/right issue, rather than an issue that has an impact on everyone.

Strange times.

Re: Man of the People : Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:49 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I never said it didn't exist - all I am saying is I don't hear any talk of it anymore. This planet has survived for billions of years - it has managed meteor strikes, ice ages, plate movements etc.

All you worshippers of princess Greta are akin to Flat Stanley - the idea that this planet wont survive another 50 years is a delusional thought. I hope your knees are not hurting that much.

You could be related to my friend from East Hull.
In relation to how long the planet has been turning, humans havent been around for very long at all but, we do appear to be bleeding the planet of most of it's natural resources and warming the place up, although some believe that the warming of the oceans is just part of the natural cycle of events.
Tbf, we are trusting the scientists, who, at best are looking only at the last couple of hundred years but, that could mean that things are even worse than some of the predictions.
The easy way is to do like Trump and just carry on regardless - burning fossil fuels and just disregard the science.
However, I dont have him down as any kind of decent scientist and his advice may not be the best on offer so, maybe we should hedge our bets a little.