And here we have the perfect example of why Brexit is such a dog to get through.



You are utterly convinced in your views of May's deal. You think it's a 'hard' Brexit. You think the 'red lines' are a problem. That's your view. It's not necessarily wrong, however stating it as fact is erroneous.



I don't agree. I think the deal is a 'reasonable' Brexit and will do a job. I think the red lines are exactly what we voted for: to leave. I don't want a 'hard' Brexit but I believe that if Brexit is too soft there's no point in leaving. Remove the red lines and we might as well stay. That's my view.



Between you and me and everywhere else to our left and right are millions of other views, from the ERG to die-hard Remainers. As well as those using the issue to do nothing more than attack the government and in particular Theresa May. Unfortunately for us all, in Parliament there are more MPs to the hard and soft extremes than there are willing to take a reasonable line and vote for the deal on the table.



As for no deal, you're taking a simplistic and with respect, blinkered view. We need no-deal on the table to force the EU to blink, which is proven by the fact they have (driven by the clock ticking and oddly, Bercow's stunt). Of course we don't want to leave without a deal (and the vast majority would agree), but it needs to be there as a negotiating tool. The threat of no-deal and damage to Ireland and the EU economy is the only reason the EU have agreed an extension. Will they blink again? Well, what are Ireland saying behind closed doors? I can't imagine Varadkar is anything but terrified of a no-deal. What levels of lobbying are they getting from heads of EU industry and nations who trade heavily with us?



A no-deal would be as much a failure of the EU as it would Parliament.



But yes ultimately if nothing can be agreed, we go. Legally we have no choice right now, unless you want to see A50 revoked, the destruction of faith in our democratic system and a huge upsurge in the hard right?

With respect, you've said absolutely nothing of substance there other than an anti-Tory rant. So the Tories get back in power and nothing changes. Yet you claimed previously a General Election would solve the problem?

AS I said, a GE "could" sole the problem, unless we end up with another hung parliament.

A Tory majority would give them enough wiggle room to push their Brexit forward and a decent Labour majority, although very unlikely/impossible would see Corbyn go for his customs union.

Ironically, if there were some kind of free vote, a Labour version of Brexit could get through parliament, although it wouldn't satisfy a fair slice of Leave voters and would very likely leave us at the mercy of The EU.

It's easy to be anti Conservative whilst offering no alternative, Labour have being doing it for years!

Yep, because they are doing a fantastic job aren't they ??

At least Brexit has taken all the heat for their appalling record on Crime and their swingeing cuts to a whole host of public services, not least mental health, which is a huge problem among millennials.

Seems a longtime ago but the simple question on the referendum ballot paper was, do you want to remain in the European or leave the European Union. A majority voted to leave the European Union. The treachery of some members of parliament is staggering. They then voted by a large majority to trigger article 50 ,which was the mechanism to leave the EU. Since then it looks like many if them under pressure from the establishment have back tracked.

You cant blemae them when Teresa May, rather than listen to ANYONE chose to go it alone and secured a deal that only she is happy with.

Hell, she cant even muster agreement within the cabinet that SHE chose and she just wont accept that it's a crap deal.

Your absolutely right imo, Ive said before that ive not read the detail of Mays deal if someone has then please enlighten me why its so bad I just can't see it. If someone has and can see a massive issue then I would love to know apart from the backstop issue.



Cameron spend over £9 million of tax payers money sending that leaflet to all households (legally I know) giving the Government position as to why we should stay in the EU: The country still voted to leave



We were told time and time again the we would have to leave the customs union and the single market if we leave because part of that would be freedom of movement. The country still voted to leave



The then chancellor said that if we voted to leave the EU, he would have to do an emergency budget. Taxes would have to rise and more spending cuts (the absolutely last thing use needed) Yet, the country still voted to leave.



Yet the people who we voted in on all sides are still trying to fudge it. Some want a soft Norway style which would mean us agreeing to freedom of movement, others want us to just leave with no deal at all. Is mays deal not somewhere in-between which we can all agree to.

I guess you could balance that with 40 years of xenophobia, racism, lies and hatred from the majority of the MSM.

Who's the MSM, I assume its something to do with the Brexit topic ?

Mainstream media

Listened to David Starkey on the radio .He is an historian and expert on the British parliament . He outlined the fact that the vote from the British people is a mandate or instruction to act out the democratic vote. To ignore that creates a constitutional crisis. Leaving the EU may or may not be a disaster and Teresa May has been a disaster, but the harsh fact remains a majority vote took place and one side won. I have respect for some MPS who are trying to push a bill through parliament to revoke article 50 ,that’s the honest solution. But the majority of the Labour Party will oppose anything in order to bring down the government. It would be ironic if due to intransigence by parliament resulted in us leaving without a deal.

I'm not sure it is the majority. The parliamentary labour party are presently led by its socialist faction at the moment, who I agree, are focused on getting the Conservatives out of office at all costs. But much of the rank and file are centre-left and their priorities are different. I make no comment on the relative merits of the two types.

It's who loony lefties like to blame for everything. Basically it's any media they don't agree with 100%.



They conveniently ignore the experiences of people in their day to day lives playing a huge part in shaping their views.

True, and watching some of the rank and file trot out the party line is often embarrassing. You can see even they don't believe it.



It's also been interesting watching some like that media parasite Lisa Nandy changing her line once she realised her Leave constituents were furious at her for seeking to obstruct Brexit, despite her representing a 64% leave constituency.

I'm not a lefty (although the loony is open to debate), but the vast majority of newspaper sales and associated website hits will be to the Daily Mail and Sun. So it is legitimate to say that anti EU and pro-Brexit rhetoric was far more widely available to the masses than remain. The available reach of the anti-EU message surely can't be denied.

It is uncomfortable I agree, but I give them some credit for having even the pretense of an agreed vision for Brexit (albeit a really rather sketchy and dreadful one). The Tories meanwhile are in open civil war and have no coherent single voice whatsoever.

I broadly agree with you about the best outcome now on the table. This was always going to be a dog to get through, as you say. While I'm not a huge fan of May's deal, it is the least risky and distasteful way forward at this point, imo. In its favour:



1. It isn't absolutely terrible, and is certainly better than no deal

2. It delivers on the democratic mandate for Brexit and couldn't fairly be called a BRINO (yes, there's the backstop, but remove that an the underlying problem remains)

3. We can get this part of the process over and done with now



So while it'd be too much to say I support it, i accept it. Unfortunately, I fear we're going to end with something worse because everybody in power is trapped in one way or another. Maybe, at the last moment our MPs, including May, will realise that and it'll get through, but somebody has to take the first step, make the first minor concession - there are some strong incentives acting against that, and it seems unlikely [utoday[/u. They say 'a week is long time in politics', and while a lot has to change, if one domino falls... you never know.



The whole threat of self-immolation to get the EU to 'blink', I read completely differently. It had little-to-no value initially, the EU haven't blinked (both imo, of course), and at this point what more would we ask for anyway? The only request we're allowed now is for a longer extension, and that'd be to go in a defined direction more palatable to them so would hardly be 'blinking'.



If May's deal is voted down again, our options are no deal on the 12th of April or a request for an extension based on a new position that they approve of. With respect, [uI think[/u you so expect them to blink that you're seeing things that aren't there. We, the UK, are free to choose, but only from those three options. At this stage, narrower options help us - Thank EU.





Also, I'm a bit tired of the threat of hard right being used to guide us anywhere and force the rest of us to blink. Cuddling up to nutters doesn't seem to be working for May, and I think there's a lesson there. If we have to base our politics from here on, on managing bigoted and fascistic tendencies from the fringes then we're doomed anyway.

And it's right wing nutjobs who pretend it isn't major factor. Well the brighter ones pretend, the average Mail, Express, Sun, Star reader is too thick or myopic to question anything.

Most Brexiteer's views on the EU, forriners & law is based on ignorance not experience. You are perhaps the only exception to that rule on here. The others are just simplistic, one-dimensional nutjobs.

I listened to David Starkey. I watched Turkey's voting for Christmas.

Thank You

It's a reason but not the only reason. The madder sections of the ERG aren't going to vote for May's deal, if no deal, which they prefer, is the immediate default. Giving the UK a (tiny) bit of time to come up with a plan B, might give the ERG pause. It feels unlikely to me, and its a double edged sword, in that it eases the pressure on the Remainers and Softer Brexiters - However, May has gone all in on delivering a Tory-DUP version of Brexit, and that is her deal's only, seemingly slim, chance IMO.

Downing Street is reportedly drawing up plans to give MPs a vote on seven alternative options to Theresa May's deal next week that could lead to a soft Brexit.



A senior minister has apparently leaked that MPs would get to choose between revoking Article 50, a second referendum, the Prime Minister's deal, her deal with a customs union, the deal with a customs union and single market, a standard free-trade agreement, or a no-deal Brexit.



It was also said MV3 will only be put forward if there is a realistic chance of winning, which almost certainly means it won't be brought forward at all now.



Why this wasn’t done 6/12 months ago beggars belief. The PM has an awful lot to answer for.

There was always a tension between her need to hold her party together and to deliver Brexit. The only way she could see of doing that was to manage the country to the point of crisis, and then hope that at the last minute either her own MPs would step back from the precipice or Labour would fall on its sword and save the country at its own expense. Even now, with the benefit of hindsight, it'd be difficult to say it wasn't/isn't her best shot.



The question now is, when and if that is seen to have finally and definitively failed, can she bring herself to do anything else? The failed Tory vote of no-confidence, and having very little left to lose could give her some freedom. I think the prospect of giving an inch to Labour would make her gag, and concessions to Holyrood would probably cost more Tory support than it'd gain SNP votes. Can she even bring herself to try something different? Will she even be relevant a week from now?

Its a very good post - most people with an ounce of decency would have gone by now - her position has been so undermind its an embarrassment to her. How can she face the EU with any kind of gravitas when they no she is not respected by her party and the opposition. Her power base has simply eroded before her.





The best thing now is she goes and the Tories call a GE once a leader has been elected. There are 4/5 very good candidates and this needs addressing urgently.



You cannot have a government that doesn't govern - its a basic premise of democracy.

Those "4/5 very good candidates" wont want the top job until the first phase of Brexit is done as it could lead to a very short stint at the helm.

Just as soon as the deal is done it will be pistols at dawn.

It will be interesting to see just who is in the mix though.

Boris would be like a daft version of Trump, Gove is an utter slime ball, Hunt, no thanks, Rudd - maybe, Rees Mogg and maybe Raab ??

Have I missed anyone



Would you want someone from the Tory right or a candidate that was bothered about the country as a whole ?