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| Quote Mintball="Mintball" – in answer to what you really want to ask: do I think any abuser should be hidden/protected? No.'"
I agree, its a great shame that the incompetence of the BBC has made that more likely.
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| Quote Cibaman="Cibaman"I agree, its a great shame that the incompetence of the BBC has made that more likely.'"
The BBC aren't being hung out to dry by politicians because they were incompetent, they are being hung out to dry by politicians with a different agenda and who think that the distraction from the subject is a minor issue in pursuing their different agenda.
When the dust has settled and there is no news reporting from the BBC at all, I fully expect the rabid print media to take up the baton and run with it instead, I just won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen though.
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| Quote Cibaman="Cibaman"I agree, its a great shame that the incompetence of the BBC has made that more likely.'"
It's rather more complex than that, isn't it though?
After all, it was the police who told Steve Messham in the first place that the person he identified on a picture was Lord McAlpine.
The agency that made the film should have checked again. The Beeb should itself have checked once more after that. But then you could point out that the BBC has been butchering numbers of journalists (not management, but actual journalists) for years and checking and cross-checking stories takes time. Sometimes a lot of time.
However, in terms of the chance of proper justice, [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20302198this is a very interesting development[/url.
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| Quote JerryChicken="JerryChicken"The BBC aren't being hung out to dry by politicians because they were incompetent, they are being hung out to dry by politicians with a different agenda and who think that the distraction from the subject is a minor issue in pursuing their different agenda.
When the dust has settled and there is no news reporting from the BBC at all, I fully expect the rabid print media to take up the baton and run with it instead, I just won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen though.'"
One of the side issues (if you will) of all this is the way in which some (note the word there) on the political right are not simply playing with child abuse as a political football, but they way in which they are quite happy to rubbish a victim. Yesterday's piece in the [iMail on Sunday[/i, by David Rose and Bob Woffinden was, quite frankly, a disgrace. Fortunately, most of those commenting have seen it for pretty much what it was.
And yet the right likes to claim that it's the left that cares nothing for victims of crime.
But reading forums on the [iTelegraph[/i at the time of the Rochdale abuse verdicts, for many (not all, note) the only issue was the ethnicity/religion of the abusers – it wasn't any concern with the abused.
It really is quite sickening.
PS: and before anyone accuses me of doing another version of this, my response yesterday to Harriet Harman jumping on the Bash-The-Beeb bandwagon was not positive.
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| Quote Mintball="Mintball"One of the side issues (if you will) of all this is the way in which some (note the word there) on the political right are not simply playing with child abuse as a political football, but they way in which they are quite happy to rubbish a victim. Yesterday's piece in the [iMail on Sunday[/i, by David Rose and Bob Woffinden was, quite frankly, a disgrace. Fortunately, most of those commenting have seen it for pretty much what it was.
And yet the right likes to claim that it's the left that cares nothing for victims of crime.
But reading forums on the [iTelegraph[/i at the time of the Rochdale abuse verdicts, for many (not all, note) the only issue was the ethnicity/religion of the abusers – it wasn't any concern with the abused.
It really is quite sickening.
PS: and before anyone accuses me of doing another version of this, my response yesterday to Harriet Harman jumping on the Bash-The-Beeb bandwagon was not positive.'"
[url=http://tompride.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/child-abuse-scandal-can-of-worms-just-who-is-daily-mail-reporter-david-rose/The mysterious David Rose?[/url
A real can of worms is still yet to be opened
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| Quote Mintball="Mintball"Whether true or false, there have been rumours about Lord McAlpine for years – these have even appeared in blogs. '"
Well, if they've appeared in blogs then they must be true! Blogs were just the precurser to Twitter and Facebook, and about as reliable. Rumours are just that: rumours. They should never be mistaken for facts, whether on blogs or in any other context. There can be many reasons for rumours starting - malice being the most common I'm sure.
Unfortunately for Steve Messham he has form when it comes to being an unreliable witness in that he has been mistaken about things before. The police should have been more careful, bearing that in mind. But I suppose the police can't win here either because if they don't take such claims seriously then they will be lambasted.
As for the BBC's involvement, so far as I can gather their mistake was not to check closely enough the so-called research done by the company who investigates on behalf of the Newsnight programme (the name of which escapes me just now). They didn't name McAlpine but apparently the programme managed to make the link even so, although I did not watch it and so I don't know how they achieved that. Twitter then just spread the word, as it does.
I'm not sure I agree that policitians are using this to have a go at the BBC although in some ways I think they should. Although consistently left wing in its reporting, the BBC is still the channel I trust the most and of course there is a wealth of other stuff the BBC do spectacularly well which I would hate to see lost as a result of this debacle. But I do think there needs to be a serious shake up among the management of the BBC. Too long it has been a club, and one which has been shown to be outragiously cavalier with taxpayers' money - the latest example being the pay off to Entwhistle of £450,000: a full one year's salary for failing to do anything right. That is just frankly immoral and all that kind of stuff needs challenging and changing. If that means interference by the present coalition government then so be it because after all the BBC IS financed in part by the taxpayer.
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| Quote SaintsFan="SaintsFan"Well, if they've appeared in blogs then they must be true! Blogs were just the precurser to Twitter and Facebook, and about as reliable. Rumours are just that: rumours. They should never be mistaken for facts, whether on blogs or in any other context. There can be many reasons for rumours starting - malice being the most common I'm sure.
Unfortunately for Steve Messham he has form when it comes to being an unreliable witness in that he has been mistaken about things before. The police should have been more careful, bearing that in mind. But I suppose the police can't win here either because if they don't take such claims seriously then they will be lambasted.
As for the BBC's involvement, so far as I can gather their mistake was not to check closely enough the so-called research done by the company who investigates on behalf of the Newsnight programme (the name of which escapes me just now). They didn't name McAlpine but apparently the programme managed to make the link even so, although I did not watch it and so I don't know how they achieved that. Twitter then just spread the word, as it does.
I'm not sure I agree that policitians are using this to have a go at the BBC although in some ways I think they should. Although consistently left wing in its reporting, the BBC is still the channel I trust the most and of course there is a wealth of other stuff the BBC do spectacularly well which I would hate to see lost as a result of this debacle. But I do think there needs to be a serious shake up among the management of the BBC. Too long it has been a club, and one which has been shown to be outragiously cavalier with taxpayers' money - the latest example being the pay off to Entwhistle of £450,000: a full one year's salary for failing to do anything right. That is just frankly immoral and all that kind of stuff needs challenging and changing. If that means interference by the present coalition government then so be it because after all the BBC IS financed in part by the taxpayer.'"
What are your views on Rebekah Brooks walking away from NI with a £7m bung?
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| Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"What are your views on Rebekah Brooks walking away from NI with a £7m bung?'"
I didn't know that was the case. What I do know though is that she didn't work for the BBC. Therefore, taxpayers' money wasn't involved, and that was my point.
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| One small point to make that has been overlooked by critical MPs and the rest of the media witch hunt is that the BBC made a statement early this morning that at least a part of the DG's pay off was a retainer for consultancy services over the next twelve months.
Now I don't know just how much work that will involve but if they can justify the 50% of the payoff that they needn't have given him by using him elsewhere in their organisation for a fee that is normally commensurate with that duty, then is there a problem any more - and why didn't MP's hear the same news story that I did at 8am this morning ?
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| Quote SaintsFan="SaintsFan"I didn't know that was the case. What I do know though is that she didn't work for the BBC. Therefore, taxpayers' money wasn't involved, and that was my point.'"
The BBC, as with other public services, was instructed by government to behave like the private sector – including in matters of employment (well, at least pertaining to management).
Because, as we all know: private is always better and private knows best.
So Auntie is doing exactly that.
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| Quote JerryChicken="JerryChicken"One small point to make that has been overlooked by critical MPs and the rest of the media witch hunt is that the BBC made a statement early this morning that at least a part of the DG's pay off was a retainer for consultancy services over the next twelve months.
Now I don't know just how much work that will involve but if they can justify the 50% of the payoff that they needn't have given him by using him elsewhere in their organisation for a fee that is normally commensurate with that duty, then is there a problem any more - and why didn't MP's hear the same news story that I did at 8am this morning ?'"
Those same critics should also be reminded that Entwistle has worked at the BBC since 1989, so I imagine part of his severance reflected his previous service too. I never managed a 12 month notice period but have twice negotiated a 6 month notice clause. Losing a job is never easy but it helps when you know that you'll be comfortable for a few future months.
The BBC was "encouraged" to chase ratings and become more like a commercial, rather than a public service broadcaster. That would account for some of the abject sh[ii[/ite that it's been producing in recent years and its failure to inveest in what it has always done best: news reporting, investigative journalism and commissioning new drama.
Entwistle inherited the current BBC culture from his predecessor Mark Thompson, so I fail to see how he could take sole blame for what happened at Newsnight.
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| Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"... The BBC was "encouraged" to chase ratings and become more like a commercial, rather than a public service broadcaster. That would account for some of the abject sh[ii[/ite that it's been producing in recent years and its failure to inveest in what it has always done best: news reporting, investigative journalism and commissioning new drama...'"
And just to add, like countless private-sector media organisations, the BBC has been cutting jobs in recent years and journalists have been a major target area.
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