What about those who have lost their jobs/conditions due to the intervention of the union? Have they not got a right to question the value for money the are getting from some high paid officials?

Animal Farm springs to mind

Now that did raise a post Christmas smile! Something along the lines of "We are all equal,

just some are more equal than others", eh? And what was that famous ditty......"The working class can kiss my . I've got the Foreman's job at last!"



Anyhows, some excellent points in [url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2530216/PLATELLS-PEOPLE-A-self-indulgent-mother-myth-starving-Britain.htmlMs Platell's[/url column which should give the Church of England some food for thought as this year draws to a close.

...because thats what is at the source of all poverty isn't it, people who would have enough money if only they didn't spend it all on christmas presents.

So doubtless you can now set down the cut-off pay rate at which someone should stop empathising with the wider workforce and daring to even think about a fairer society.



At the same time, you can also provide the evidence – which you have singularly failed to do previously – that society as a whole is not better off in social terms when the income gap is lower.*





* To clarify: that was [ilower[/i – not non-existent.

Well, when people try to be responsible – saving for Christmas – they get shafted by the likes of Farepak, which took their money while knowing it would not be able to repay. Of course, it's still ultimately their fault for daring to want more than a satsuma and a walnut at Christmas.

There is no upper limit - as humans are natural instinct is to look after ourselves and I would suggest to 99.9% of people providing sufficiently for themselves is their primary consideration. Most of those who spout empathy - and I include you - do so from a position of comfort.



No one has provided any evidence that society is better of if the income gap is smaller - and again I include you. If it were the case capitalism would have vanished and been replaced by socialist/marxist/communist system. Sadly that has proved not to work. So where is our evidence that it does - and that doesn't include searching the internet for a rouge article that supports your view point.

So, you cannot answer the question?



You're the one stating that anyone who dares to empathise with others and even mention fairness should not do so once earning a certain amount of money.



This 'argument' has previously been shown (not by me) to be crass: to follow your logic, only a slave would oppose slavery, was an example that was given.



Yet you persist and, since you've repeatedly suggested this, you must have thought out what that rate would be.



Incidentally: I am quite comfortable now. It has not been the case for the bulk of my working life – as mentioned before, the copper jar was essential not that many years ago. No holidays, no trips out etc etc – and that was while working.



I'd be interested to know just why you'd expect anyone to suddenly only interested in themselves when their own lives improve. But then again, you can't even put a figure to your own pet theory that a concern for fairness should cease on reaching a certain pay level.



I equally doubt that you know the pay levels of anyone on here who you would assert should stop being concerned about fairness, thus rather rendering your comments insubstantial at best.







I know that I have mentioned [iThe Spirit Level[/i more than once on here, so either you've missed it, forgotten it or decided to ignore it.



Feel free to refute the work that Wilkinson and Pickett did – using evidence – but stop trying to pretend that such evidence does not exist.

Capitalism as a system FAILS because people die of GREED.

That will now cause the right wingers no end of problems trying to work it out but it is a truth.

Have fun Sal, AJW, World of Red Boy etc.

Try and refute it.

Your replies, if any, will make for interesting reading.

Has 'Him' done a runner?

Wouldn't have thought there was much poverty in Horsforth Gerry. I'm sure your Christmas golfing socks were of the finest merino wool!

Perhaps you missed the part where she didn't actually have the money, but borrowed it, and is now complaining that her benefits payments will not cover the repayments?

The austerity looks like it is working. The UK economy is now predicted to overtake Germany as Europe's strongest by 2030 and predicted to have the second highest highest growth, after the USA, of any advanced economy.

Traditionally, people die of stoppage of the breath......something common to all of us!

Do you share this optimistic prediction Dally?



Will the United Kingdom even exist in 2030? Will we live in an Islamic Republic? Will England just be a state within Euroland?

Not at all, I hadn't actually noticed your post, apologies.



It certainly wasn't a deliberate error to mislead, the graphs on that site are, however, a little misleading themselves. For instance if you use the same data ie GDP per capita PPP but for 2010 to 2013 you will see it shows the higher figure I quoted as being for a period including 2010 and into 2011, but not to the end of 2011.

If I was incorrect, I apologise and withdraw the comment.



Incidentally, I notice the Andrew Mitchell thread hasn't been touched recently...

Don't know, I neither live in Horsforth nor play golf.







I'd be ace on "Whats My Line".

Did you actualyy read the report or just the headline?



Few commentators have mentioned the population growth required to achieve the projected economic success, a growth that can only be achieved through a massive increase in migrant labour

Low taxes also cited.

They will appear mid 2014 as a selling point.

The so called economists of the mainstream media are thick - just like you.



"George Osborne likes to say that the UK government’s cost of borrowing (the yield on gilts – government IOUs) is low because investors are impressed with his running of the economy.



This is complete and utter tripe.



Gilt yields are low because the Bank of England now owns about a third of the entire market. If the Bank was to try to even think of offloading these bonds, or even to stop buying gilts, we’d soon see how impressed investors are with Osborne’s governance.



In short, the UK is a ‘zombie’ economy. From top to bottom, it’s being kept on life support by low interest rates".



Source: John Stepek, Money Week



In short:-



As soon as interest rates go up we are finished.



As soon as foreign investors move away from the pound we are finished.



This is only a matter of time.

What are you on about - or what are you on?



When people are struggling it takes all their energy and will to keep their head above water, they are shopping in a supermarket because that is all they can afford. Their not too bothered whether the multiple offers one type of apple or ten as long as the price is within their means. It is only when we reach a certain level/status/position which will be unaffected by their change in view - that they are to consider the wider perspective. Simple Maslow really. Look in the mirror you are that person. How much of your hard earned salary would/have you be/been prepared to give up so somebody down the chain of command could have more?



We are basically animals with animal instincts - our behaviour is similar to what you see in the jungle. One of the reasons meritocracy/capitalism works is because it appeals to our inbuilt instincts - the best hunter will have the most food, best choice of mate etc.



I don't need to know what you earn to know you are comfortable - you expose your whole existence and status in the posts on this very board. You wonder why I have little truck with your position? Your biggest worry is whether the local butcher will have twenty different cuts of Beef available and whether it is organic? You think somebody on minimum wage gives a about whether their food is organic as long as they have some. You are a hypocrite of the highest order. You talk the talk but you certainly will never walk the walk.



I don't need to put a figure on when you become less egocentric - it depends on individual circumstances. You cannot quantify it.



Again you produce one piece of work and suggest it is irrefutable proof? I take you have read Christopher Snowden's book that complete dismantles this theory? Who is right who is wrong?

if interest rates rise will investors not buy in to the pound?

Planet Earth.







Carry on inventing things, sunshine, because I have never suggested this anywhere. You're a fantasist, who needs your fantasies in order to provide some sort of 'evidence' for your claims.



Now if you want to stop looking like an idiot, feel free – and answer questions and provide real, meaningful evidence to support your claims.



Otherwise, you're just another little troll with nit an ounce.



Actually I suspect not: I think you're probably just a greedy, selfish individual who is trying to excuse not having an ounce of morality in their body.

So, once again your "evidence" is petty personal abuse - to a guy who wrote simple common-sense stuff. You like to talk about "debate" but do you ever when people question your views?