Erm, who's landlocked and miles from water?

There is a small bald man sitting inside that swan, peddling like mad you can just see the top of his head above its folded wing.

Can't you see all them callous asylum seekers leering out of that top flat window hatching a plan to trap then BBQ one of her majestys beautiful swans?



Evil bastads, I tell thee!!!

My pleasure entirely.







However, such extreme events are becoming more regular – and this winter's tidal surges were so severe as to destroy or damage many defences.







The point remains: there has been and remains a political consensus on maintaining that situation – and [uimproving[/u it. We have had successive governments, irrespective of the work of their own scientists, routinely cutting spending or ignoring the need to improve defences, infrastructure etc, on the grounds of political expediency and nothing else.







Yes, I think they have. We've always had occasional freak weather, but what is happening now is that is becoming more regular – and not just more regular, but in more places at one time or over a short period of time.



We have, in effect, lost any sense of the seasons: we have no idea what's coming next or when – and this has increasingly been the case for several years.







I'd treat Monbiot with some care: most deforestation in the UK didn't happen recently, but in Medieval times. And on his argument that, if you look at the map and see the number of places that are called 'forest' but have no trees, he's historically inaccurate, since 'forest' also more generally meant 'hunting area', for instance.



There is an issue with current farming methods and compacted soil, but again, it's far from being the only issue.







As I said above, the frequency with which such events are occurring is increasing. And looking at many of the houses we see in pictures of flooded areas, these are not developments that have all been built in the last 20 years.

I think he's saying that it's okay to have land below sea level [iif[/i you're landlocked. But then neither are we, which is what destroys his point.

There was an excellent documentary last night, which concluded that it was simply not viable to protect 100% of our coastline. Bleedin' obvious I would have thought, but it did also point out that throughout history, Mother Nature has the ability to surprise. This winter's storms being a prime example.



I personally, am not convinced that using a very short 10 year window is proof positive as to a permanent change in our climate. And if people are going to get a tad upset about a spot of rising damp, then they can start by asking questions about the sensibility of this [url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561713/River-quango-allowed-190-000-new-homes-flood-plains-formed-Environment-Agency-agreed-construction-despite-concerns-uninsurable.htmlpolicy[/url Or they could install some preventative measures themselves. I'd start by pointing the finger at that chubby lad from Hull......not Codhead, Prescott!



And as money is no object, I look forward to the £180/200 million flood prevention scheme which was knocked back a few years ago, being implemented here in Leeds with all speed. There were many objections to the 2 metre high plastic walling from commercial interests, and those who had invested in riverside flats.Yes, I know that Planning permission has been granted for a much smaller, circa £50 million spend on the outskirts, and that at some time in the future a start will eventually be made on it. In the meantime, there are no flood defences for Leeds and a projected £500 million clean up bill if it does all go tits up.

If you mean Panorama, that was not "an excellent documentary". It was a short, superficial glance at the recent events with a few individual cases thrown in for effect.



I remember when Panorama WAS excellent.

There was a projected map of the UK in 2100 on the internet recently, assuming rising sea levels due to global warming. Basically, alot smaller than now! Essentially Lancs and Yorks (save the Peninines) under the sea. Another reason why the RFL needs to encourage more expansion clubs.

There's a cricket club perched on a hill as you go over on the M62, and I always used to smile at its location. Maybe they were just being prudent! Not too sure that 2100 will be a problem for any on here, but in any case, I have a narrowboat, so a bit of water can be seen as a plus!

All this freak weather you talk about - is it really more common / more intense? We've not had a winter like 1963 since. We've had big coastal floods many times. The Thames used to freeze, etc, etc.



Weather and climate always fluctuates and always has done.



Monbiot was not saying upland trees have just been cut down but cited an example of some upland farmers planting trees, hedges, allowing localised flooding in order to increase their own returns which has a big knock on beneficial effect downstream. Poorly targeted EU subsidies mean they are encouraged to tear out any trees and hedges, according to him.

Our uplands would naturally be wooded but "we" seem to prefer them to look bare. Reafforestation would dramatically reduce river flooding downstream at a stroke.



Flooding is largely down to the obsession with using land for commercial purposes, tidying it up, etc. Reafforestation, allowing areas of natural water meadow, etc would solve most of the issues. As ever, political interference and a distorted "market" that gives subsidies to the wrong things and does not put a price on the natural environment cause these problems.

Yet we had a 6-8 month winter last year. Nice and mild this time around for most of the UK – yet the wettest one on record and nobody seems sure when it's likely to end.



That's two successive and extreme winters.



We have had heavy flooding now in at least three of the last six years, IIRC. Not in one place, once, but across the UK, on a number of occasions and sometimes more than once in the same place.

Yes, but such events have happened thousands of times over the millenia. If you look at longer term fluctations we in the Northern Hemishpere have had numerous ice-ages and very warm inter-glacial periods. Our current climate is, arguably, unnnaturally mild as I would guess are the short-term fluctuations in weather patterns.

These so-called freak weather patterns have always occurred and humans have always reacted in the same way i.e. panicking that they were omens of an impending apocalypse caused by immoral human behaviour. In the past it was God's wrath caused by our lack of faith in religion and today it is global warming caused by our lack of faith in environmentalism.



Despite the work of Galilleo showing that the earth revolves around the sun, people continue to believe that the earth revolves around us. Everything that happens on this planet is down to us. People need to just accept that there are forces more powerful than us that are out of our control.

When you say people believe the Earth revolves around us, who are "us" - you and who? Where do you stand?

Don't those two paragraphs directly contradict each other ?



"Its not us, its just nature"

"We are causing the nature"

Having read what he wrote there is no contradiction - just your inability to understand the written word. Both paragraphs mock humanity's group ego- centricity.

Having read what he wrote there is no contradiction - just your inability to understand the written word. Both paragraphs mock humanity's group ego- centricity.

I rather like this:



"Despite the work of Galilleo showing that the earth revolves around the sun, people continue to believe that the earth revolves around us."



Yes. I can well imagine all those people thinking that the Earth revolves around them and not the sun.

Having read what you, sorry, he, wrote (LOL) then here is the contradiction for you ...







In other words nothing that is happening to the weather now is anything to do with climate change, its purely humans trying to fit a description to a natural phenomenon.









Riiii-ght.







Maybe you meant to log off after the first paragraph and write the second one as someone else, like you then did 10 mins after "Titan" wrote his/its post ?

Gotta give it to Dally.

He does keep us all fairly amused on here.

I really do despair at the "knowledge" of the right wing apologists on these forums.

It seems to work on :

If it is is written in the right sort of publication it is therefore the truth.

If it is spoken by the right sort of person then it is therefore the truth.

Anybody who disagrees or, even more dangerous, QUESTIONS theses utterances is not really a person of understanding.



An observation, regarding how our "aristocratic " system works and is expected to work. Over the last few years we have been told that austerity was for the benefit of all. Some people are really suffering because of this. From the right wings great elite, not a peep.

Suddenly, farms and animals are in trouble and lo and behold the elites leader (who is supposed to represent us all without bias

) chips up and says their will be feed and help from the royal farms to help these poor people.



Now this flooding is probably a once in a lifetime event. To those who have lost everything then the trauma etc. can only be imagined.

However when people come before the populace complaining that yes they know they live on a flood plain but basically didn't expect to flood then for them my sympathy meter goes into a downward spiral, especially the tory farmer who stated his land had been flooded a long time ago but no one had put up flood defences for him since then!



Was that HYPOCRISY I heard, Privatisation is best, work for yourself, you only get things by your own efforts etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. He could and should have put flood defences up himself, crikey he gets enough EU money as a farmer (ooops too right wing political hypocrisy).



These floods have been an eye opener, and hopefully thinking starter for so many people but as long as the standard FUJIA until it affects me is replaced I doubt if things will change. Oh we will get knee jerk political reactions as we have seen but the root cause will NOT be looked for because there are vested interests in ensuring this is never found



In a nutshell Tories look after Tories and no one else.

Indeed.



There were no floods in the UK in [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Great_Britain_and_Ireland_floods2012[/url. Or in [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_Kingdom_floods2007[/url. Or [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Morpeth_floods2008[/url. Or [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Great_Britain_and_Ireland_floods2009[/url.

Are you plain thick. Read it again and then pick up the context from the very last sntence! I despair.

If its so clear in the last paragraph (it isn't) then why did you have to log off the Titan account and then log back in as the Dally account a few minutes later to ask yourself to clarify what you meant in the last paragraph ?





You can't fool us you know, logging back in the other side of midnight doesn't mean that we'll think its a completely different day...