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| Quote Standee="Standee"try it and see how far you get
in fact, try driving a Nissan Pathfinder through the tunnel and not getting stopped and searched both ends, and if you want to borrow one, PM me.
Europe is nowhere near as "open" as UKIP or others would suggest.
That is the problem, SOME of what UKIP want to do is quite right, as is SOME of Labour and SOME of the Conservatives.'"
Mainland Europe is hugely open. I frequently travel by both car and air from Germany to the UK and back. And have never once been stopped and searched at customs.
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International Chairman | 37704 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote JerryChicken="JerryChicken"Holding online conversations with Americans as I am want to do now and again, it never ceases to amaze me just how many of them are hyper-patriotic to an ethos of "USA" and yet often very anti-government to the point where part of the issue of wanting to own guns is almost as a warning to central government that they will not be controlled by their own armed forces if it ever came to a situation when the government decreed it so - I often get the feeling that (especially with Obama) they are just one wrong word away from another civil war and if it kicks off its going to start in Utah, a state that seems to have an above average mix of chip-on-shoulder, very far right republicans for whom central government is an unnecessary expense.
Ultra-patriotic but the patriotism being directed to the flag rather than the country, its a very strange mix and something that we cannot compare our union of countries to at all.'"
Countries or counties?
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| Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"Countries or counties?'"
Ah yes, counties...
Countries if you want to extend it to the Union of Europe for even that does not reflect the armed response that mid-america is prepared (so they say) to take against its own government whilst still defending the flag.
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| Quote JerryChicken="JerryChicken"Ah yes, counties...
Countries if you want to extend it to the Union of Europe for even that does not reflect the armed response that mid-america is prepared (so they say) to take against its own government whilst still defending the flag.'"
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| There's always something a little horny about bat crazy women
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| Apparently, Farage is willing to join with the Tory party for the next election so long as they dump Cameron and install Boris as leader
If true, he may as well join the Monster Raving Loony Party instead.
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| Quote rover49="rover49"... If true, he may as well join the Monster Raving Loony Party instead.'"
It would finish that party's credibility.
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| Quote rover49="rover49"Apparently, Farage is willing to join with the Tory party for the next election so long as they dump Cameron and install Boris as leader
If true, he may as well join the Monster Raving Loony Party instead.'"
Good electoral tactics from Farage.
At the moment, UKIP are a real problem for the Tories. In the absence of some form of alliance, UKIP will deliver a Labour majority at the next election by leaching the Tory vote. A genuine electoral pact where the Tories agree to not field a candidate in strong UKIP areas could deliver a handful of seats for UKIP and UKIP standing down from challenging in Tory marginals will give the Tory MPs chance to stay in post. This could end up in a Tory-UKIP coalition.
However whilst Farage's tactics sound superficially like a great way to unite the right and block Labour out, they will split the Tories apart. The areas where UKIP are most likely to win are not going to be in Labour or Lib Dem areas, they will be Tory areas - how many sitting Tory MPs are going to willingly stand by and hand their seat to UKIP? Their only option will be to defect.
Also by stating the terms "this offer is only on the table if you ditch Cameron and install a leader right wing enough to be acceptable to us", Farage is trying to flush out a leadership challenge. Cameron is now going to have his hands full keeping control in his own party because the right wingers are going to be more emboldened now, I wouldn't be surprised if the next two years he is reduced to the state John Major was in, being constantly 'briefed' against by his own side with the papers cultivating constant speculation about a challenge.
UKIP divide opinions amongst Tory voters and they also will amongst Tory MPs - there will be some who would be quite happy to jump ship if they thought they would win a seat, as UKIP represent views they also hold but feel they can't share too loudly in the current Conservative party. But there will be a lot of other Tory MPs who would be horrified at the idea of having anything to do with UKIP and might end up leaving and forming another party or trying to stand as independents.
Farage has the potential to do to the Tory party in the 2010s what Roy Jenkins and his mates did to Labour in the 1980s.
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| Quote sally cinnamon="sally cinnamon"Good electoral tactics from Farage.
At the moment, UKIP are a real problem for the Tories. In the absence of some form of alliance, UKIP will deliver a Labour majority at the next election by leaching the Tory vote. A genuine electoral pact where the Tories agree to not field a candidate in strong UKIP areas could deliver a handful of seats for UKIP and UKIP standing down from challenging in Tory marginals will give the Tory MPs chance to stay in post. This could end up in a Tory-UKIP coalition.
However whilst Farage's tactics sound superficially like a great way to unite the right and block Labour out, they will split the Tories apart. The areas where UKIP are most likely to win are not going to be in Labour or Lib Dem areas, they will be Tory areas - how many sitting Tory MPs are going to willingly stand by and hand their seat to UKIP? Their only option will be to defect. '"
What is missing from the above on the negatives of such a pact is it would represent a clear shift to the right. To win general elections as Blair realised you have to attract the centre. Any such pact would risk alienating the very voters who tend to decide elections.
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| And in a further rather obvious response to UKIP, Lord Lawson, writing in Murdoch's [iTimes[/i today, says the case for exit from the EU is clear.
Mind, I love the bit where he accuses businesses of being lazy and prepared to sit on their laurels, trading with the EU, when they should be out there, trading with China. "Globalisation" is the game, apparently.
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| Quote sally cinnamon="sally cinnamon"Good electoral tactics from Farage.
At the moment, UKIP are a real problem for the Tories. In the absence of some form of alliance, UKIP will deliver a Labour majority at the next election by leaching the Tory vote. A genuine electoral pact where the Tories agree to not field a candidate in strong UKIP areas could deliver a handful of seats for UKIP and UKIP standing down from challenging in Tory marginals will give the Tory MPs chance to stay in post. This could end up in a Tory-UKIP coalition.
However whilst Farage's tactics sound superficially like a great way to unite the right and block Labour out, they will split the Tories apart. The areas where UKIP are most likely to win are not going to be in Labour or Lib Dem areas, they will be Tory areas - how many sitting Tory MPs are going to willingly stand by and hand their seat to UKIP? Their only option will be to defect.
Also by stating the terms "this offer is only on the table if you ditch Cameron and install a leader right wing enough to be acceptable to us", Farage is trying to flush out a leadership challenge. Cameron is now going to have his hands full keeping control in his own party because the right wingers are going to be more emboldened now, I wouldn't be surprised if the next two years he is reduced to the state John Major was in, being constantly 'briefed' against by his own side with the papers cultivating constant speculation about a challenge.
UKIP divide opinions amongst Tory voters and they also will amongst Tory MPs - there will be some who would be quite happy to jump ship if they thought they would win a seat, as UKIP represent views they also hold but feel they can't share too loudly in the current Conservative party. But there will be a lot of other Tory MPs who would be horrified at the idea of having anything to do with UKIP and might end up leaving and forming another party or trying to stand as independents.
Farage has the potential to do to the Tory party in the 2010s what Roy Jenkins and his mates did to Labour in the 1980s.'"
Their support is not confined to Tory heartlands, I am currently working a lot in the North East and Merseyside, predominently in areas of high unemployment and there are UKIP posters in a lot of windows in Labour territory and the main issue is also the one that the Tory faithfull are afraid of, immigration. Like it or not, it's an issue to many working class people as they see (rightly or wrongly) there jobs being swallowed up by immigrants.
I stayed in a Days Inn off the A1 a while back and the manager told me that it was 90% full of long term contractors from Eastern Europe who had been employed directly by an agency back home to work on a large construction project up the road. These are the things that worry the ordinary men and women the most and to many of them, UKIP have the answer.
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| He's not the BNP and forced repatriation, those workers would still be here working (rightly).
Some people have it in their head he's racist and hates foreigners?
I'm fed up to the back teeth of being told i'm a closest racist for supporting them too by Mr Clarke.
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