You may have one the lottery of life, not everyone in this country has been as fortunate as you. A little humility and there but for the grace of God go I might be well placed.



A lack of the ability to empathise with others isn’t a symptom a hard-working, tough love, no-nonsense, self-made guy. It’s a symptom of psychopathy and sociopathy.

Quite. You would always find civilised western countries apprehending and prosecuting suspects. The thought that you could kill and maim a bunch of people on suspicion there are some wrong uns amongst them, by, say, sending a drone to fire a high-explosive missile into the lot isn't the sort of thing they would go for at all.

If you read the news reports around the case Duggan wasn’t some random person who found himself suspected of being a member of a violent organised criminal operation by accident. He portrayed himself as a gangster, and the Police though he was a gangster because he associated with known gangsters, and prior to the shooting they were monitoring his behaviour, they were suspicious of regular taxi rides he took between locations in London known to be associated/controlled by violent gangs (those who are a little worldly wise will know taxis are used in this way to shift drugs/guns/cash/other because they are less likely to be stopped than a stolen car or a car registered to a known criminal). Now his family might claim this was a mistake, he was just a bit of a loveable rogue who liked to pretend he was a “gangsta”, and who despite being officially unemployed and from a less than affluent background inexplicitly had money to spend taking taxis to visit his mates who just happened to be known/suspected violent organised criminals. For me it’s a bit of a stretch to believe the harmless rogue theory.



As far as the shooting incident is concerned I must admit I found the reports confusing, but then I haven’t had access to the detailed information the jury had. They seemed to have seen enough evidence to accept he had a gun in the car and that he probably threw it away at some point during the stop (someone else has already been sent down for supplying that particular gun to him). There is then the question of the shooting itself, they accept that the Police officer who shot him believed he had the gun at the time and was a genuine threat, although it appears with hindsight he had probably got rid of the gun by that point. Nobody seriously seems to think that he didn’t have a gun at all, and that the Police inexplicably fitted him up in the most contrived and awkward way possible.



What really annoys me is some of the views I’ve seen expressed in the media from “community leaders”, there is explicit race mongering, there is pandering to the criminal subculture Duggan belonged to and those who wish to appease and accommodate it, and talk of “injustice” done to Duggan’s family. He wasn’t shot because he was black, that had absolutely nothing to do with it, only a fool would believe that had he been a white gangster transporting an illegal gun it would have all been rosy. Would it help the people who go in for this type of idiocy if the Met printed out fliers to circulate amongst gangsters to confirm that they are an equal opportunity service when it comes deploying armed response against armed gangsters, and a warning they might like to consider alternative pursuits if they don’t want to get shot?

Interesting. I'm not doubting you, you understand, but you couldn't by any chance just provide a link to the stats for composition of juries by racial prejudice in the "acquitted police killer" cases you refer to, could you?

Doesn’t matter though does it. Whether or not he was a ‘gangsta’ is a bit irrelevant, we have a process for dealing with that. His death is no more justified if he were Tony Soprano incarnate than if he was the new Ghandi. His death is only justified by the officer who shot him having and honest and reasonable belief that he or the people around him faced an imminent threat.



If that is the case, what happened is fine. If it isn’t, what happened is murder. Everything else is irrelevant.

No i couldnt. But i also did not state it was based purely on racial prejudices hence the delete as appropriate comment.



I can however remember reports where it stated all white jury ( they have stopped doing that now).



The point is that juries in this country are notorious for not convicting police officers in these types of cases. Sometimes due to the juries, sometimes due to the judges, sometimes the failure of the cps tp prosecute effectively and sometimes due to the fact the police investigate themselves.



The Point stands that 100s of people die at the hands of the police and yet the police are very rarely held to account or successfully prosecuted.



Statistically some of these deaths at the hand of the police are criminal acts

You don't actually understand statistics, do you?

Yes statistically you are more likely to ignore the important point and play petty intellectual point scoring games.



( based on your last post anyway

)

It's not a petty intellectual point. You are claiming that statistics somehow guarantee that [isome[/i deaths in Police custody [imust have been[/i a result of criminal acts. Statistics are capable of no such thing. That's a fairly central plank of your argument based on a fundamental misunderstanding.



I'd say that's rather relevant to the discussion, wouldn't you?

[size=150Do you want to comment on the fact that the Police kill large numbers of people and very very rarely are successfully prosecuted for their actions.



Do you have any views on this or are you wanting to be a pedant [/sizeabout the way i presented some information.



Should i change it to balance of probabilities add in the word likelihood would that make you happier.



Maybe that would just obfuscate things though and you would have to concentrate on the main point.



[size=150Police kill and get away with it FACT[/size

LOL, good job I have a sense of humour and don't jump up and down demanding that you retract your accusation of racism, I can write off your slur on my fictional character as simple foolishness on your part so don't worry about it.

Calm down dear.



As has already been pointed out to you, statistics prove very little but as you are leaning on them very heavily for your ridiculous outbursts then could you provide the breakdown of those deaths in custody to show which ones were due to a police officer killing a detainee and better still what methods they used (you know, the bit where you mentioned suffocation), I'm assuming that you have those statistics haven't you ?