Let's face it, Brexit is for gamblers and those with least to lose if everything goes titsup.

Even Obama is sticking his oar in now. It's all getting desperate.

Have the Out campaign come out with a viable argument as to why we should leave the EU yet? All I've read is the opinion of experts & economists that say we'd be better of remaining in the EU.



The Out campaign at the moment seems to be built on an ideology and a massive risk, rather than what's actually best for the country & the people in it.



I'm willing to listen to either argument, I've just not seen anything compelling from the Out campaign yet

That's because they haven't got anything compelling, unless it's this "Ohhh barbarians at the gate" thing.



Reading in the i this morning that Farage is saying Labour are only being anti-semetic to attract the Asian vote, as if they are cheating and it's something he wished he'd have thought of first.

Have to say I am struggling with this issue.



Being on the left I would normally go for the internationalist, co operative pre Europe view





BUT





It is clear thatEurope is just another capitalist club that we are part of.



The way they dealt with Greece and the negotiations of the tip agreement are good examples.



Socially there is an element that is positive re eu legislation working hours and green polices as well as the European court but the rise of the far right in many countries makes me wonder whether it will be as progressive in the future.



My other concern is that the benefits system in Europe is quite unique in that it relies only on being in need which is what I like about the welfare state. In Europe no other country has that which means that with free movement of labour the strains on the welfare state here are going to be huge.



There is a big part of me which thinks that by going it alone ( I don't buy all the scaremongering as capitalists don't like to affect trade) that being out of Europe means that the country will forge it's own identity which will shake the labour movement in the uk wake up.



Then the British will have to decide what sort of society they want Daves Britain or a progressive country based on equality and fairness.





This pretty much fits in with the views of tiny benn so I am in good company.

I’m beginning to think Dave is a double agent, coming out with “If we leave then a European war is on the cards” – really!



The scariest thing for me though is I.D.S. reckoning to be a champion of the poor

.



Can’t the Tories sort out their bloodletting in some other way other way rather than jeopardising the financial stability of the country?

It was quite hilarious watching a replay of the Treasury select committee meeting from the6th March were Lord Rose the ex M&S boss who is the leader of the 'together is stronger' campaign get his kicked by a Tory MP hahaha The £3k nonsense exposed as bollicks www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-35712184 The ridiculousness that people cannot see/understand how and why we would be better off out is far scarier than anything else. I'm a vote for out btw...lol

It was quite hilarious watching a replay of the Treasury select committee meeting from the6th March were Lord Rose the ex M&S boss who is the leader of the 'together is stronger' campaign get his kicked by a Tory MP hahaha The £3k nonsense exposed as bollicks www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-35712184 The ridiculousness that people cannot see/understand how and why we would be better off out is far scarier than anything else. I'm a vote for out btw...lol

Conversely, IDS went on 5Live yesterday and quoted some research about immigration, suggesting that for every EU migrant who comes to work here, 23 British workers are displaced; the hardly incisive Tony Livesy pointed out that the research was actually about non EU migrants, but IDS ploughed in with his blatant lies, with little regard for the facts. He also skated over the fact that calling for border control, which we already have for non EU migrants, has done absolutely nothing to reduce those numbers.



The whole campaign is based on spin, fanciful notions, lies and scaremongering - the UK will vote with little knowledge of the facts, because they aren't being provided to us by either side of the argument.

All this "the facts" nonsense is infantile. Such a decision is based on judgement and "facts" do not come into it.



For what it is worth, my view is that the UK would suffer a short-term economic hit but would become better off out than in within a few years. Security - no real difference. International representation - stronger as would have our voice as a major economy and military power, rather than been subsumed within a single EU vote.



But the bigger picture is one of freedom, democracy and law. Our system, which has served this country and its citizens very well for centuries is at odds with that of the rest of the EU and is being and will be totally undermined by continued membership as standardisation occurs. So, the country that is willing to break the rules where the rules are stupid will have to "obey orders" from central command (effectively Germany) and we all know where that got the world in the 20th century.



Labour's support for the EU on the grounds of the "social model" is simply risible. What when the model becomes Far Right thinking - which is where things are slowly but surely heading? Will it all be left to the Russians next time to sort it out?

Whereas drawing any relationship between a decision to remain in the EU to the rise of the Third Reich, is a mature and sensible platform upon which to base your argument?



As I said - spin, fanciful notions, lies and scaremongering; you've proved my point rather elegantly.

If Dally and the resident nutter from the Hull FC board are both voting Out as per above, that's enough for me to be voting in.

Wow, you need to lower your dose Dally.

Remain are so desperate that Gordie Brown has been wheeled out. In a stunningly coherent interview he says that Britain should not be out or half in the EU but at the heart of it. He then says that we shouldn't be in the Euro and should run with those things that are in the UK's interest but not those that aren't. So Gordon, it fully in or half in!! What a clown!

Not comparing with the "rise of the Third Reich." Just observing the resurgence of Far Right politics in Europe as a direct result of EU incompetence.

Not a direct result at all.

No interest in immigration, keep it as it is or close the borders, don't care either way.

No interest in European law/ British Law.

No interest if I'm £4k a year worse off or not.



I am Brexit because I don't believe the EU parliament is transparent or democratic enough for me.



I can't decide who Germany/France/Spain/Poland etc etc vote in, I can't vote them out if I disagree with them. I hate the system, I want out of a unified governance.

In Europe yes, in an EU controlled Britain no.



I'm fed up of the right spewing anti immigration nonsense and all the other typical Daily Mail-esqe tripe, equally I'm fed up of the left telling me I'm a xenophobe.



I personally think the current British system is a joke, I would prefer regional ie county governance, with accountable people who I can vote out, every last one of them.



I have no say in voting out Schultz or Rumpuy, Barosa or Tusk.

I find that dangerous, that to me is not democracy and I don't care how any wing, left or right perceive me.



Democracy, open, fair and every last one being accountable to me is how I want to see it.

Cameron has served his purpose in preventing any kind of substantive reform of the banking sector in the wake of sub-prime as well as ensuring the average British tax-payer coughed up more than his fair share.



His only major blunder was in failing to provide support for US combat operations in Syria. And that cost him big.



Now his job is to chain himself to the EU and appear as unappealing as possible so that a man on a white horse (such as the likes of Boris) can ride in and save the day. From then on he's a lame duck and it won't be long before he's quietly packed off to enjoy the fruits of his labour.



Like all former Prime Ministers (which the possible exception of Blair) it will be as though he never existed. One or two appearances on the back bench - a handful of carefully edited interviews - maybe.

Well said.

If we were to stay in the EU it isn't going to 'remain' the way it is now. Right from the start it was set up as an organisation to facilitate a European super-state. If we stay our national power will only be diminished further. The whole concept is based around Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi's work Pan-Europa which called for mass immigration into Europe which would lessen ideas of national and cultural identity and bring cheap labour for large corporations.

After all the mind-churning, tit-for-tat, meaningless argy-bargy that has been served up by the two camps, I would recommend any undecideds and brexiters to read the most sensible and reasoned opinion piece yet, on the front page of today's Guardian. The author is none other than Delia Smith.

Both the remain and leave campaigns have thoroughly and consistently lied through their teeth in this campaign and have been allowed to get away with it by the pi55 poor media in this country.



The BBC are terrified of government and so are simply a repeating station for any government line, the rest I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw Nigel Wood sat on Josh Jones' shoulders.



Of course there wouldn't be war in Europe without the EU or if we left the EU. Nor would the country completely fall apart if we left.

On the other hand neither are those nasty, dirty, devious foreigners taking over or destroying "British culture" (whatever the feck that is). As for losing sovereignty? Well we gave that up to large institutions and the US decades ago. It most certainly wasn't lost to the EU.



The argument is over whether we'd be better off in or out. I can see arguments on both sides but I'm firmly in the remain camp.

If the EU isn't working then fix it.

The days of Empire are over, we can't just send a gunboat in to solve the situation and get what we want anymore. You have to work together with other countries and the way to influence things for the better is to be on the inside of these organisations not on the outside.

The last time I looked at this thread was on my mobile which doesn't have the ad blocker installed. Ironically there was a sponsored advert for the EU referendum from Richard Branson asking us to vote IN. Thanks for that multi-billionaire Richard, you're really on my level and I feel totally connected with you while you send emails from your own private island.



If us minions are going to be told how to vote, please don't take the ing out of us!

The EU is an economic basket case. it is clear we would be better off within a decade. Our GDP is bigger than Russia's and if we put our savings and more from exit into military spending then it would drive innovation and within a decade would be a very powerful nation - behind only USA and China. In a dangerous world that for me is the way to go.

Despite your derision this country is the 5th largest economy in the world even with EU drag. We the impetus of getting out and standing proud Zi believe we could be 3rd within a decade and enter a golden era of prosperity, especially if we stopped importing millions of people on minimum wage and instead the world's best intellects.

Wrong. The whole thing was based around an idea by Churchill and backed by the other Allied leaders in the wake of WWII.

The world has moved on from WWII, I think?