Quality first 25-30 mins from Leeds but were just unable to keep it going.



I don’t think there is much between the 2 teams at all and wouldn’t surprise me if Leeds beat saints in the CC

Back in yet tank, Rommel



I thought Oledzski had a decent game last night. Walmsley probably better, barring his kicking game. But look at Mik's supporting cast. We had 2 lightweight tacklers in the SR, a number 10 who's effectively in the same mould, Goudemand (another with little go forward), Sangare (go forward but limited involvement) and Cam Smith whose remit is hardly the hard yards. I think even Big Al might struggle under those circs.

First half we performed well for 30 minutes played some excellent rugby. Then saints fought back and in the end ran out convincing winners.

Make no mistake about this, we are a deeply flawed side, no attacking structure it’s all off the cuff rugby. Second half as per normal get down to the opposition 25 ,no meaningful plan to unlock the saints defence. Try we conceded under our posts was an absolute shocker, the Benison try was smart passing along the line. A decent defence would have coped with that. So far this season we haven’t produced a decent 80 minute performance .

Second half Croft tried his best with very little support runners. Tompkins who is turning out to be an excellent match analyst summed it up perfectly in comparing both sides playing methods. One will always prevail over the other, Saints have that and have proved it in recent seasons.

Saints must be paying Welsby a huge amount of money to keep him away from the Australian clubs. He is one hell of a player. Smith absolutely right in complaining about the referee letting Saints slow the ruck down. Saints players making no attempt ,having completed the tackle to clear the ruck area. If you recall several seasons ago this was picked up by referees and penalised. It didn’t have any bearing on the result but needs sorting out.

At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious we need to win next week, another defeat would be a huge set back.

Can’t decide what I think about Cam Smith.

Is he a grafter, with good hands and good leadership?

Or a painfully slow player who gets in the way of offensive structures?

Well, tbf I expected to lose by more.

Saints are just more organised, disciplined and clinical.



Positives:

First half was good and we started to show some real identity.

Miller is a real box of tricks and will be exciting to watch.

Mik is starting to get back to form (he's not the best prop in SL btw).

Sangare is getting fitter.

Goudemand is going pretty well, but he shouldn't be one of our regular 4 prop rotation.



Negatives:

We're yet to play for 80 minutes.

The attack is all still a bit too off the cuff and very unstructured.

Way too many errors in second half.

Frawley's kicking is terrible.

We don't put any pressure on the opposition kicker. Frawley was under pressure every time.

The selections and use of the bench is still really poor from Smith - we noticeably drop off when changes are made.



Oh and it was cold and wet....

Not sure there’s many teams put in an 80 minute performance as yet, don’t think Saints really have either.



Wigan and Saints are the benchmark teams and were not quite there yet.



Saints especially have had a very settled squad for quite a few years, yes theyve changed their 9 this year (thought we kept clarke quiet yesterday)



Were 5 games in with a totally new spine, the season is going pretty much as I thought TBH. We've been great in patches. To put it in to perspective this time last year we got beat at Castleford with our number 9 walking out of the club.

I think it’s a sad indictment on Leeds as a club when people associated with it come out with statements like “That’s the best 40 minutes we’ve played in 6 or 7 years”. Seriously Jamie ? We scored one try and Saints scored one try, and once again at times in that first half we looked unable to clear our lines defensively. If anyone hadn’t noticed, we are now 7 years down the line from a champion team and the rebuilding of “The Golden Generation”. If some people are happy with our team being out scored 3 tries to 1 at home and beaten by 10 points then good luck to them. For me a lot of last season’s failings appeared again last night, from a beaten pack to running up our own bottoms in attack with no structure or pre planned moves. Then there’s a poor kicking game and a weak chase that exacerbates the poor kick. We will win more games than we lose, and qualify for the play offs this season. As for anything more, we are hamstrung by weak props and possibly the wrong approach from our coach. People will have come away from that game with differing emotions, mine were of disappointment, some will see light at the end of the tunnel. I think my disappointment comes from losing games in the same manner as we did last season, and the acceptance in some quarters that being 2nd best to the “top” sides is what we should be expecting since the heady days of 2017.

We could have done with an easier draw next week as weve had a tough run of fixtures, but unfortunately it wasn’t to be.



Fwiw i can see a reversal of last nights game, saints start string and we pip them in the second half if we defend well.

We can’t change what has happened since 2017, it’s history, and unfortunately it isn’t a quick fix.



Saints and Wigan are the benchmark sides, unfortunately that’s where we are at. Call it acceptance if you like but im not sure pointing that out is a negative. It’s unfortunately reality and at some point it will change.

There’s a difference between recognising where we are at, and accepting it. We’ve made progress with the squad and aspects of performance this season, but we are still a fair distance from winning anything given what we’ve seen so far. It’s ok to hold both of those views simultaneously, we’re on a journey to get back to where a club with Leeds history and resources should be, that will still take more time as we have (and still will) take some wrong turns.

Well Saints put in an 80 minute performance. When we had our purple patch of approximately 30 minutes they only conceded one try in spite of constant pressure from us. We however as per normal when we came under pressure crumbled. The try conceded under our own posts was a shocker.

That wasn’t an 80 minute performance by Saints.



Not sure the ‘as normal when pressures on we crumbled’ remark is that accurate. That’s not really the story of the season so far.

We didn’t look like scoring second half and were physically shot. That’s worrying for me. Call it expectation mismatch, but I just thought we might be a bit better this season. Saints weren’t at full strength and had it far too easy second half. That’s a major worry. Don’t think we have much chance in CC on that showing, but let’s see….

I think you’ve summed the current situation up as well as anyone could have done there. I realise we have no divine right to be dining at the top table, and when people say success is cyclical there is no defined period in which you ultimately become a champion team again. When I see things actually happening with my own eyes rather than being told they could be happening soon I’m sure I’ll be coming off the blood pressure tablets

We are better this season.



We weren’t at full strength either. I think it possibly is an expectation mismatch, it was a good game against two of the better teams in the league, and Saints just got on top in the second half.



We can over analyse it because that’s what we do as fans but i don’t think last nights game proves nothings changed from last season at all.



I also think ‘major worry’ is overstating your case a bit.

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You are very optimistic and that’s a good quality to have. Hope you’re right. Our good teams used to have support runners who converted most line breaks. Shame nobody was backing Miller up when he bursts the line….

Yep and I think frankly we need a couple of future England stars to emerge from the academy.



It’s also early in the season and form changes - we might be having different conversations by the end of the Summer.



We have some good ingredients. What frustrates me at times is individual players trying to run through the entire opposition, rather than us working harder around the ball carrier as a team to challenge the defence and change the point of attack.

We’ve never been a well structured attacking team. Even our great teams have relied on individual m, off the cuff brilliance. We had pace though, you need pacey support runners for that style of play. Current team won’t be able to do that regularly enough so will have to learn structure, which takes a long time….

I think it really struck me at Leigh how their attack and runners were genuinely hard to cope with in good ball.



Saints was actually a necessary game, as a yardstick. Hopefully we get Mom and Lisone back next week and the team composition is more balanced.

Leigh are probably the best team in the league at those plays (not winning them many games though since the CC)



Since Woolf took over St Helens they aren’t actually a brilliantly structured attacking team like Leigh. They are just machine like, especially in defence. Look at how few trys they concede, think theyve only shipped in 40 points in 5 games, and most of those were against Salford with 12 men.

They’ve also got Lomax!

They won’t have forever.



Weve got Croft, there’s not much between them imo.

Thought you guys were great to watch last night. After 20 minutes I thought we could be on for a morale destroying drubbing. Not sure how you didn't end up further in front, but our scrambling defence was excellent which it had to be! Really looking forward to round 2 next week



Thought Ackers, Croft and obviously Miller were brilliant and all look like really good signings. Sangare is an absolute monster as well, if you can get him more involved and running at steam with some aggression then he'd be really hard to stop. Think you've got a good base to build with now, which is not how I saw your team last year. Think you will improve and I think your team is probably the top end of the chasing pack to us and Wigan. Do need some more beef in the pack though

Saints are a top side - they are relentless in defence and you need a well thought attacking structure to break them down - something Leeds don't have.



I am struggling to see what O'Connor brings to the team that Johnson didn't - that move for the Saints try was out of junior rugby.