How many teams have produced top class halves, hookers at 13s in recent years?



Dodd and Lewis are only 2 halves. No hookers at all.

I think we over hype the Young players we go get through. JJB is already talking about Newman as ‘international class’, and Gannon as a ‘superstar’. No they are not. Nowhere near. Are both promising young players and that should be enough. We’ve seen what can happen to young talent (Ward, Sutty, Broadbent )…..even Holroyd currently ……

None of us have a clue how these people perform in their day to day tasks. They may leave, they may not but it's just silly to demand their removal from such a position of ignorance.

I actually agree with this. The days of teenagers coming into profesional open age rugby and being superstars on a regular basis are long gone.

Their job is to produce a top class side that performs to its potential - even Stevie Wonder can see that is not happening - we don't need to see the intracacies of the day to day - the outputs are there for all to see - Leeds are second bottom of a very average SL. If a business was losing money do you pat the directors on the back because they are doing the day to day - grow up please

Surely taking young players from outstanding young players at amateur clubs to the professional level is what youth development is all about - how much development input is Butterill actually having and how much is the work of the amateur clubs and the players natural talent? You are saying its the senior development - at what age do they go into that 17 - so how much influence does Butterill actually have? They maybe great at 16 but realistically how much of that is down to the Rhinos and how much is down to East Leeds, Oulton, Parkside etc.



Johnson has yet to prove anything at senior level and Smith is a very poor mans Morgan Smithies or Morgan Knowles - please be realistic about players and their abilities

They aren't the directors, they are the employees. Some of them relatively low-level at that. Sorry if your simplistic, context-free "sack everyone" dirge isn't finding much favour amongst us grown ups.

A business losing money doesn’t mean everything and everyone in the organisation is bad.

Im not an expert but i presume the outstanding young kids at amateur are playing the outstanding young kids from amateur. As we see, it's not as if players just join their local professional team so there's decent competition that he gets his team playing well in.



He's the one heading up the coaching at 15 and 16. Then they go to the Academy where we've had a host of former players shoehorned in. The difference with Butterill is that he's come through the amateur game and learnt his trade. He understands the link between amateur and the pros and starts that transition off. I'm not convinced we've had the continuation at Academy (except for Rob). It seems to be something we struggle with generally over here and I've always wondered why the Aussies are so much better at it. But Saints seem to be excelling at it too now.



I agree that we have players with potential and who are yet to reach the standards of others elsewhere. But I'm not convinced the problem is at scholarship level. My point was that we have players in those positions who could go on to be top quality. I don't know if they'll be managed in the right way to achieve it

No it doesn't but it does indicate that the people at the top aren't doing a great job and perhaps its time for a change

The top players will rise to the top, don’t worry about that…..

So are you saying JJB, Long, Walker are low level employees? This is a sports club these are key people - this club has been in decline since 2015 - how long do you persist with the same group - perhaps that is a bit too grown up a concept for you to grasp.



The changes needed in this club are radical a bit like when Graham Murray came - this culture cannot evolve into something approaching the professionalism of Saints with the current set up.

Would that be the same Graham Murray who retained all of the existing coaching staff and had the previous head coach still at the club working in the background?

Two things are certain. 1 whoever gets the job wont be at Graham Murray's level (sorry Zoo Zoo) and secondly those of us who was lucky to be Leeds fans at that time will never forget it.



The way that bloke united the whole club and made everybody feel they was part of it was unbelievable.



Prior wouldnt have been doing 3 carries for 13 metres under Muzza i know that much lol.

I wonder if Shaun Wane is a strong candidate you know… it would be a good one imo I’ve always rated him. Very good with developing players

He would only do it once!!



The kind of revolution under Murray is what is needed now - something needs to change the current culture at the club. We might not get a Graham Murray, we would have appoint Bennett/Bellamy, but we need a leader who isn't going to look over his shoulder at the glory days.

wane would be perfect imo

Wane would shake things up but he plays a very negative style of rugby that saw crowds disappear whilst he was coach. Its a trade off but of the English coaches he is probably the best given the situation the club finds itself in

but he would strip it back to basics and make it work. on a short term deal, say 18 months, he would leave it a far better team than it is now.

without harris that team of Murray's would have been the same as wanes would be

I disagree - he had Godden and Blackmore - two high quality centres and a pack that scared the living daylights out of the opposition.

Leeds Rhinos Wiki page, has Head coach Ryan Carr? A speculative update, leaked info or mischief? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Rhinos?wprov=sfti1

Leeds Rhinos Wiki page, has Head coach Ryan Carr? A speculative update, leaked info or mischief? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Rhinos?wprov=sfti1

Quote rollin thunder="rollin thunder"Leeds Rhinos Wiki page, has Head coach Ryan Carr? A speculative update, leaked info or mischief? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Rhinos?wprov=sfti1'" Go on and change it to Roy Francis.

Quote rollin thunder="rollin thunder"Leeds Rhinos Wiki page, has Head coach Ryan Carr? A speculative update, leaked info or mischief? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Rhinos?wprov=sfti1'" Go on and change it to Roy Francis.

The crowds have already started disappearing for Leeds. Wonder how many who comment on here actually go? A winning team, however dull, would bring some back.

Agreed but I am not convinced the style rugby Wane plays will sustain the growth in crowds even if they are winning - Wigan won plenty under him but the crowds lost interest due to the style of play. Hopefully he has changed his philosophy?

To be fair, as good as some of the players in that team were, our record without Harris in that period was dreadful, as close to a one man team as you will see.