There is luck involved but having people around who are good judges and coaches of juniors helps a lot, as does actually focusing on trying to get the best kids to the club in the first place. Regardless of what GH or any of the first team coaches said about youth development, for a fair while (from the back end of McDermott's tenure until a year or so ago as far as I can tell) it was an afterthought and a chance to give coaching jobs to the boys rather than a seriously planned programme. That's why we just don't have many class club-developed players at the peak of their careers in the squad today. Thankfully we seem to have turned the corner there but it will take years to bear fruit.



In terms of NRL recruitment its getting harder but you've much more chance if you actually watch games rather than highlights reels, and have good contacts in Oz with respect to fringe players. Hopefully Smith will help with the latter, because our overseas recruitment has been poor for a number of years, with our highest paid players generally being a huge letdown.

Fair points. Wish you were CEO now!

Saints and Wigan don't have 2 O/S players.

Saints have 6, Wigan have 7.

I’d be surprised if any Super League team doesn’t use as many overseas spots as they can afford. To do otherwise would seem a bit daft.



There’s a difference in the quality and value of those players perhaps but that’s a different argument.

Saints have seven

Saints and Wigan only have 2 O/S players?



Theres some nonsense posted on here

How did Walters go last night?

61 metres, 8 carries, 21 tackles, 3 missed tackles.

Involved in the myler try too.

7.6m per carry 86% tackle success not the greatest stats for a player who wants more game time. Really needs 90% plus tackle rate and 9-10m per carry

Walters was a positive he has an edge and something different to him. A nice turn or pace, some explosiveness, and an offload. If people want to just look at the stats then he made more metres than any of our other props and played fewer minutes.

If he's going to cement a place in the 17 in the front row, then he needs to improve his defence and up the amount of carries he makes. All our props are currently 3rd or 4th props. We really need a proper leader in the front row. This is the role Mik should be doing, but it's clear he's still working his way back to full fitness.

I think it's fair to say if you give Walters 10 mins extra he will make more carries than the likes of Lisone. He is making the same amount of carries as the other props or more and playing fewer minutes and coming off the bench. He deserves his place in the 17. As for the work rate in the pack, I think they all need to up the number of carries they are doing. Controlling the ball better will go along way to fixing that up.

If we’re coming out of our own end a lot because of the tactics then a lot of carries are going to go the way of the outside backs.



But agreed they could all up their work rate. Mik was an absolute beast last year and carried the pack, he’s clearly working back to form and fitness. Sangare has been impactful in limited minutes. The rest of them have ranged from inconsistent to poor for me.

Not sure i get this Sangare has been impactful at all

Aggressive and impactful are not the same.

All rephrase. Sangare has been what I expected. He’s raw and makes the odd error/defensive lapse, but he’s big, can skittle a defender and offload. He’s exactly the type of prop who has been causing us problems for years in the mould of Paasi or Kasiano, granted he’s not the finished article.



Also realise my previous post may have been unfair to Tom Holroyd, who has been pretty good.

Not sure ‘pretty good’ cuts it anymore…..

So you don’t think Holroyds had a good season so far?

Holroyd got an England call up for his form. His best is still yet to come he could be a bigger Barrie McDermott.

No I think he’s been very good actually. But they all need to be paying, ‘very wellI’ most of the time now. Long gone are the days where we could just turn it on at will and blitz teams…..

Holroyd is our best prop he's got aggression and a massive engine and he'll get better and better quality.

Holroyd and Walters are our two best props,Mik is way off at the minute. Lisone is a ten minute man and as for Sangare,well to be honest Donaldson is better value

Sangare has offered more than Donaldson.



Mik will come good,will just take time to regain march fitness and the fact we now have props means he isn't doing it all himself.

Mik has been poor since his return - I appreciate that is not allowed on here - but he has.