Gonna regret posting this. Hopefully these figures from the NRL's official stats people, Sportsdata will settle the inaccuracies posted when it comes to figures. Even the Canberra Times article is woefully wrong on Ellis.





Most tackles overall after 3 games: 1st. Hindmarsh 154, 7 missed, 9 ineffective



Ellis is 27th. with 86, 3 missed, 6 ineffective.





Half backs – Most tackles, Brett Kimmorley 74 (24.7 ave), 10 missed, 6 ineffective.

Chris Sandow FYI has missed 25 tackles already.





5/8th – Jarryd Hayne 67 tackles (22.3 ave), 3 missed, 5 ineffective

Matt Rogers has missed the most with 17.





So no halves at all at 30 tackles per game. Hindmarsh hasn't missed 13.

What is the difference between an ineffective tackle and a miss?

It is to somebody unable to comprehend simple english - I mentioned Finch's Origin record in my second post on the subject - do you really have issues with simple english? why not just calm down and answer some of the points rather than avoiding all the arguements - that is bit a difficult given your inability to read

im assuming a miss is when you fall off, an ineffective may be if you are first into the collison but are not able to stop the players momentum and require another man to come in

look id really like to point out all the mistakes you make but spud is getting upset at the whole situation so for his peace of mind ill let you say what you want.



i mean i get my info from watching the nrl and listening to experts like NRL on Fox.



poor spud gets advice from you.

I've always taken an ineffective tackle as being one where the attacking player gets an offload away. I don't know that for sure though.



154 tackles with 7 missed is an excellent statistic by any standard.

Ineffective tackle means that they can get the ball away. ie offload.

oh i have a sense of humour....thats why i've pretty much stayed out of this one..i'm to busy laughing at what a idiot you are making of yourself

so wanting me to be banned is a sense of humour



right spud.



i enjoy my time on here.



its not my fault many people on here dont have a clue about the nrl.



even if it was a poster i thought was a dope, if they say something that i think is good ill give them credit.



but when people just post obvious BS, well, they get what they deserve

just to put it into perspective :



1. weve had the best tackler in the nrl critisised for his tackling technique and compared to mcguire. anyone that knows the first thing about the nrl knows nathan hindmarsh is the best tackler there.



i provided stats that show he does 50 tackles a game, i was told it was wrong. it wasnt wrong.



2. tim smiths form was laughed at. hes never done anything in the nrl. when i pointed out his nrl form was quite good, and indeed hed won the Dally M rookie of the year, the poster refused to listen.



3. brett finch was said to be a poor half back and danny mcguire better. when i reminded the person taht brett finch has not only played origin but also won them.



and if you go back to my original post, i didnt say mcguire was a bad player. all i said was i didnt think his defence was good enough for a 6 spot. many other people that seem to know about the nrl agreed with me.





ill conceed that halves and five eights make around 15 - 25 tackles a game, not the 30 i claimed.

Half backs: out of the 19 players to have played in that position this season. 7 of them have an average of under 15 tackles.



Seymour 14

Campbell 11

Marshall 9.3

Prince 9

Orford 9

Mullen 8.5

Hornby 8





Five eighths: out of the 19 players to have played in that position this season. 7 of them have an average of under 15 tackles.



Rogers 14.5

Anasta 13.3

Dureau 13

Barrett 12.7

Roberts 12.5

Soward 12.3

Barba 5



In fact the only half to get over 25 tackles was Cameron Smith who played 5/8th in one game with 34.





That's more than ONE THIRD don't come into the reckoning

I think we laughed at him because an NRL dally M winner cannot get into a poor wigan side because of an 18 year old junior, and when he has played he has been dire to say the least.

it wasnt you it was someone else.



tim smith has had a lot of problems with alcohol. hes not interested at wigan.



if he comes back to the nrl and gets his head right, he is a fantastic player.



i rate smith quite a bit.

why are you picking the lowest amount of tacklers?



thats a biased way to do it.

You said



ill conceed that halves and five eights make around 15 - 25 tackles a game, not the 30 i claimed."





Fact is, more than one third of all halves make less.

so you decided to pick the lowest after that to make your point

OK thats sounds really fair.



edit : to be clear, i was also ONLY talking about five eigths.



i know you english you use half to mean both but i wasnt talking about halves.



its about the 6 position

You need to read the posts on this thread if you are able to:



1. I never said Hindmarsh was poor tackler all I did was compare his missed tackle for the try against Canberra to McGuire's one missed tackle in the WCC. If McGuire was a speed bump for that one missed tackle then surely the same logic applies to Hindmarsh's missed tackle. You also suggested he doesn't miss any tackles - the stats suggest otherwise - I agree stats can be misleading and depending on how you interpret them to me if a player is able to offload in the tackle then that is not a lot different from a miss.



2. Brett Finch has played 3 games of origin the last in 2006 - the point that seems lost on you is that was three years ago - Wendell Sailor was a great player with significantly more origins under his belt than Finch, only a fool would suggest he is as good a player as he was before he went to union - the same applies to Finch, he looked a reasonable player in a very good Roosters side sadly he is playing an average side and is now looking like what he is a very average NRL half back with as much chance of playing origin as Gareth Ellis. Matt King is another example - he looked a great player when playing in a very good side coached by the best coach in the NRL - take him out of that environment and his true colours have been exposed.



3. Tim Smith as I said hasn't played in the NRL for 12 months his form has dipped dramatically in the previous year to a point where he was struggling to get selected in a poor Eels outfit. Whilst he may not be interested in playing in SL and has stated he wants to return to the NRL surely his own professional pride should prevent him from embarrassing himself everytime he takes the field. He doesn't appear to have any offers from NRL clubs which must tell you something - let's face it Barrett had little problem finding another club. His defence has been exposed big style which is surprising for a player who has been through the NRL system. To me he looked a great player and it is often difficult to accept that they cannot kick on from what seems a very high standard and they have peaked at a very young age.



With regards to McGuire I don't think his defence would be an issue in the NRL - he is a player that polarises opinions - even amongst Leeds fans - he is one of the most targeted half backs in SL in a team with the best defensive record in the league - his tackling stats compare very favourably with any half back in SL. In the NRL half backs need a long kick - I thought the Eels v Raiders game was union game the ball spent so much time in the air - this is one weakness in his game.



Glad to see you have finally admitted you overcooked the tackles for a half back





Now try avoid scoring points and respond to the points raised above in a resonable manner and it might help to recover some lost ground.

am i still allowed to laugh when you raise points which i think are simply ludicrous.



if you want a reasonable debate just admit when you are wrong like i did.



you were wrong on hindmarsh, smith and finch.



very, very wrong.

Dally,

As a fellow Aussie can I ask you to give it up Mate.



You "patrol" two forums and blanket them with your opinions to the point of suffocating any other debate.

Unless you are incapacitated and this is your main focus in life its time to get a life Matey.

I have never like the term "Ugly Aussie" and always thought it was bullsh@t but you are making me think there is some truth in it.

Get onto "Sportal" forums and get a robust debate going there.

We must agree to differ - on the half backs you had little option the stats made your claims look stupid. The rest is a matter of conjecture - your view against mine - who is right and who is wrong cannot be agreed.



On Hindmarsh if I had said he was a bad defender OK but I didn't - all I did was compare one missed tackle with another.



On Finch you think because he kicked a drop goal in an origin game 3 years ago that makes him a good player - I don't agree on what I see on the TV - that is a matter of opinion.



On Smith you think because he won the Dally M rookie in 2005 that makes him a good player now - I pointed out his recent form has been poor a point even you agreed with - whether he can recapture the form of 2005 even you don't know - I have seen Smith live 5 times and his influence on the result has been non-existent going forward but calamitous in defence. I am basing my opinion on the here and now you are basing your opinion on form of 3/4 years ago.

ill repeat what i said before.



if you dont like it, why dont you choose not to read it.



its not too hard is it.

so basically even though i can admit im wrong, you cant.



yeah, i can see why we have pages and pages.



especially when your views are so clueless on the nrl.



the funny thing is, its not as if you are close.



nathan hindmarsh is one of the best tacklers in the nrl.



any idiot knows it.

as i said before picking the lowest figures and not the average is hardly a fair way to do it.



if you want a proper debate, just go with the average rather than picking mickey mouse figures.

Calm down - where on this thread did I say Hindmarsh was not a good tackler - just simply quote me from this thread it cannot be that difficult?



What else have I got factually wrong - quote me from this thread and I have no problem admitting I am wrong - the fact that you may not agree with my views do do not make them wrong nor does it make yours right they just differ - I have explained the differences between my view on Smith and Finch to yours - but now you have once again been backed into a corner on these they are now being ignored just like the claim about the tackling half backs - the only leverage you see is Hindmarsh so you are pursuising that in preference to the other two and McGuire - sadly for you that avenue is just about to close too!!

He is simply offering you some practical advice - just take it on board - soon you will have nobody to debate against if you continue in this vein