If I recall rightly, his comments came in direct response to a question about expansion and they seemed to be very much made in a 'protectionist' context. It struck me was less about "building a base on which to grow the game nationally and globally" and instead, protecting Wakefield's position against bigger, more ambitions competitors.



Of course as owner of Wakefield, he is absolutely entitled to that position, but I don't believe he was making those comments with a 'bigger picture' view in mind (call me cynical if you will). Remember that we've had more than a century to "build a strong base" - one has to ask serious questions as to why we don't have it.



Again, I don't agree with all of Lenaghan or Pearson's ideas, but I do feel that they are trying to cast the sport's net much wider than someone like Carter ever would.

I think you're making a meal of it to be honest; I would suggest that he was probably asking - and attempting to answer - the very question that you've posed in your final sentence. And I can't see how any right-thinking person would argue that the unfocused, opportunist way that the sport tries to handle expansion now, is never going to create anything sustainable - less so if it's built on shaky foundations.



I don't disagree with your overarching sentiment - but using Carter as a bellweather for all the ills of RL is too much of a stretch; all club owners have some responsibility, including the supposedly successful ones - and I see as much danger in the attitude of Leneghan and Pearson as I do in the one you're attributing to Carter.

The sport had a strong base, A teams,reserves strong international scene a Challenge Cup everyone craved for, County matches,floodlit competitions.. Please enlighten me to what changed.

The world. The world changed.

We didn’t have a strong international scene. There were 3 national teams and there are 3 now. That’s part of the problem we never did the hard yards of building the international game.

I’d also argue we didn’t have a strong base. You have to go back to the early 70’s to see decent crowds at league games.



RL squandered its opportunity to build for the future and instead went for short term gain buying Aussies, spending all the money on players and not building any kind of domestic or international infrastructure.



Whilst RL makes mistakes now, it’s in the shadow of that huge, monumental cockup 30-40 years ago that effectively bankrupted the sport.

The RFL has started to turn its back on the average fan in the name of expansion. The ridiculous idea of Magic Weekend in New York is a prime example of this.



Here is a question for you. Lets say the smaller clubs in Wakefield, Leigh, Castleford, KR, Widnes etc - Majority of fans of these clubs are against the idea of expansion in our game when it comes to idea like Toronto competing in SL. Why? Its pretty obvious that they are a direct threat to our chances of been in the top flight of RL and as fans of our clubs we will obviously take that view on expansion in that sense.



We are told that there is a massive appetite for the game in north america, what if in the not too distant future we had let say 8 or 9 north american clubs are accepted to play in the "European" game all with these big money backers as Toronto have- As a Leeds fan are you then still in favour of this? When Leeds Rhinos place in the top flight of our game is all of a sudden been taken by New York and there ridiculous big money backer?



I here people saying when there is enough of a structure in terms of the amount of competitive teams that they will build there own league structure but by the time that happens... What then for the game in this country? We all know that fan bases will dwindle in the second tier, clubs will inevitably be struck by financial woes, all of our talent will have been attracted by the dollar signs and all of a sudden we are left with, well, not very much at all.

I personally wouldn't agree that the RFL have done that (and I wouldn't know how you would actually charictarise the "average fan"icon_wink.gif. We still, for example, are one of the cheapest professional spectator sports in the country.



However, even if they had, I would suggest that the RFL's hand has been forced in that regard, because the "average fan" isn't enough to keep this sport going.



The "average fan" appears to be someone who is only interested in going to games if there is a discount code. The "average fan" is someone that advertisers and sponsors have little interest in, unless that advertiser is a bookmaker or payday lender. The "average fan" is getting older, and we're struggling to find fans to replace him. The "average fan", in simple terms, isn't going to be able to keep paying this sport's bills.







They're only a threat to clubs that don't evolve to the modern sporting market. This isn't an issue of geography, it's about standards. If any of the clubs you mention could demonstrate that they can be part of a vibrant and growing rugby league competition that could bring world-leading talent to this in this country, it doesn't matter whether they are in Toronto, Tunbridge Wells or Thatto Heath. The reason why expansion looks to be the best solution to that is because we've tried persisting with the heartlands, and we continue to go backwards in comparison to other sports.







It's easy to argue that I'm only pro-expansion because I'm a Leeds fan, but I refer back to the above. As a fan of this sport, I want to see the best players that I can, playing in as competitive a competition as I can.







At the moment this is all largely hypothetical but what I will say is that I genuinely believe that the North American's recognise how both NA and the UK mutually benefit each other. We offer a fan base and player pool, whilst they offer new audiences, media and commercial opportunities. There's no reason why that can't continue, but it would require our all clubs involved to keep up. Nothing is inevitable.



And remember that North American sports also recognise the value of cooperation. The NA market is full of examples of small-town and city teams competing with the big World Cities. There's no reason why that dynamic can't continue in RL. It might require some changes, but is that really a bad thing?

Its a shame that you can't see Championshiop rugby on a Thursday night anymore. This, coupled with no publicity of the Summer Bash, several clubs with very few supporters (<20) adds to a below than acceptable attendance.



I am also not sure a neutral supporter with no marketing or real idea how good the Chamionship rugby is at present would want to go to Blackpool either - it's a grim place most of the time and expensive in the bits that receive visitors. It's no surprise to me that the attendance figures were low.

The point is, for any expansion to work it has to be with the current clubs and framework. Not replacing them. That is the only way for RL to become stronger.



I agree that the fact we don't put in the hard yards with regards international RL is part of the current problems. As we are seen as a small club sport, because of this. The fact that it keeps happening is terrible, where are the plans to expand after the last WC ?

Where I work more people are interested in RU simply because of the international calender they have.which in my opinion make the game easier to market and sell.

That's why we lose players to RU, because they want to become international icons, not just the money.solimonea being a casing point.



And as an answer to the point about 8/9 north American teams. If that ever comes about, you've now need to worry about them being in this league. As American networks and general insular approach would mean that they would be in an North America league. After all which do you think is more marketable to USA TV, markets. Dallas v Philadelphia or Dallas v Wigan?

RU has always been about the international scene we're never going to match that and we lose players to RU because of money the same way RU used to lose players to RL years ago

Do you have an answer to why? Barla was a beast. RU players galore in waiting. A couple posts above thinks the international scene was the cause of the demise of this sport.



What do you think?

I think that the lack of an international calender or any progression towards one is partly the problem.

The reason that RU and Cricket get more coverage is simply because of it. Most of the newspaper and radio coverage is about England, who should be playing etc. And to me that makes the whole game more marketable and easier to sell.



but I also think that the summer bash and magic weekend have had there day.with there contrived fixture lists and just being about making the RFL money.

To me it would make sense to move the Easter derbies to the Monday, and play what would have been the 2nd easter game on these weekends.

It's hardly a surprise that there's empty seats at this event.



You have clubs in the countries top tier who can't manage 5k gates for a standard home game. How can you imagine that clubs in the division below can attract a crowd?



There was bound to be a drop in crowds this year as last years event had Bradford take on HKR, so that's two well supported clubs out of the mix and an expansion club which, like all the others, generates a lot of talk but not a lot of ticket sales

I couldn't believe the amount of empty seats to be honest....not good. Time for a major rethink to get more people at the games. If Summer Bash was held in Toronto it would have had 10, 000 per day easy.

Something needs to be done to promote interest and market properly...listen to us in TWP....we know how to do it.

Change is hard though, but the future is riding on it!

Whilst Bradford v HKR last year was a draw-card, if the RFL are happy to present this event (and magic) as a "festival of Rugby" then they should put their hands in their pockets and promote it. If they just want to stick posts in the ground and pocket the ticketing revenue, then it's no surprise that 6,500 fewer tickets were sold this year over both events......As the average age of RL fans grows, the crowds will continue to shrink and it is the responsibility of the sports governors to work tirelessly to attract new fans.....3,928 fans on day 2 of the bash for 3 games is unforgivable.

I don't think that Toronto receive any central funding, which I guess would mean (all things been equal) that those 20,000 attendees (sic) wouldn't be sending any cash back to the UK? It would also mean that the 10,000 or so that did attend last weekend would be deprived of a day out (or two) supporting their team in a live game.



I just can't see how your proposal would benefit the game in the UK?



Someone with just a handful of posts shouldn't necessarily be dissed, but you come across as someone who's been here for quite a while. 'nough said.

Or put another way... JC, Sir Kevin, Lebron J and now Canoeman are all one and the same persona.

I have no idea what you are on about. It is true that TWP receive no central funding but cash is not a problem on this end and we would certainly donate all of most of the gate receipts to the clubs (with a small per centage to League 1 just to help them out; can't forget where you come from!)



Of course many fans would visit and make the trip over; trip of a lifetime...the attendance was so low this year that it would probably lead to an actual increase to be fair.



It would benefit the game may fold, especially the expansion efforts and future NA World Cup. This would allow UK fans to travel to a new place, watch their team in a unique venue, the players would love it and have a wonderful experience to look back on later in life and we would let every club leave with some cash in their pockets; lets not forget helping our League 1brothers out a bit too.

I have no idea what this means.



"Run With The Pack!"

Ok, I take it back that you're an alter ego for some other posters (or rather, just the one) on here. But, I still challenge that if you are so amazing, why do you need to bother with the pitiful leagues in the UK? Just take the Americas on, conquer them, and then take on the world.

So, just a one-off then? It's a rather expensive hobby to trot across the Atlantic. You're right that folk might build a trip to Canada (or France) to include supporting their team in a game of RL, but not every year. Folk can budget to support every game, home and away, in the UK if they want, but a single trip abroad (especially to Canada) makes the rest seem cheap in comparison.



Get real.

Fans come over all the time for every home game...its not as much as you think, not like the old days. We have jets now. Ask Hunslet, ask York, ask Coventry.



Its time to try something new, something original. Time to make Rugby League sexy again, instead of the home of the aged model which de facto you accept. Time for REAL change. TWP has the know how and we know the way to success both financially and commercially.



Putting Summer Bash in Toronto could be easily done and would be wildly successful...I guarantee if it was tried once it would shock many people.....there is a spirit over here for League which England has not seen in decades....don't be afraid....BE BRAVE!



You get real or our game will continue its slow death because people lack the will to succeed. Build it and they will come!



"Learn And Follow With The Pack!"

lol......then why have some suppliers not been paid for last years shirts and other shop gear associated with Kappa?



A wolfpack ravels only as fast as its weakest member. The old and infirm travel at the head of the pack whilst the strong and the young bring up the rear, moving at a pace not set by them.

All Toronto have done so far is run a few beer festivals and show games on access TV......and where's Eric? Didn't strake me that he was another to last one year and then scarper.......but RL is scattered with such types.

Case # 1:



Observations: Subject appears to be in way too deep, talking drivel. Becomes easily enraged. Always reverts to personal insults if questions get too relevant.

Patient appears to be somewhat delusional; seems to be heavily medicated and is making things up. Comments about being a Wolf one minute and a Messiah the next.

Appears to have problems recognizing and respecting his betters.



Action: Rest, get off the meds. No more RL for next 8 weeks except watching Toronto Wolfpack roll through Championship opposition on Premier Sports.



Prognosis: Possibly terminal but I will try my best to save him and help him understand the error of his ways.

I'll let you know when I meet a "better".....