I'd agree with the majority of this but just playing Devils advocate.



Missed tackles is misleading you don't get pinged for the tackles you don't attempt just the ones you attempt but don't complete, so if you stay away your stat is good.



Assists this stat is so high because of the deficiency at centre and the fact the play tends to go to Williams and that edge. I think we have been better of late because they have been using Dufty in the right edge to make up for Drinkwaters deficiency.



I would love to see Hayes on the right and have genuine threat either side.



There was a post somewhere that talked about I think the 2011 side with now and who would make that team. I'd have lived to have seen a Briers/Williams half back pairing.

Are we really suggesting here that players are actively trying to avoid a tackle? If so, how is this not being picked up during the hours of analysis that gets done after every match? Currie has been consistently picked by Chambers, Powell, Price and Smith. He has been in representative squads lead by Wane and Bennett ranging from 2017 ish, through to this year. If there was any chance that he was actively missing tackles, or not making an attempt to tackle, how has this been missed by all of these coaches, not to mention investigated for match fixing. It’s just nonsense, complete nonsense.



On the assist rate, yes the lack of a centre may see him get more ball in those opportunities, but he has the skills to convert them. And not just ball in hand before the line, but we’ve seen offloads post contact, breaking the line and finding a pass for a try and almost added to that by what should have been a try on Friday when he chased the kick and batted back leading to the Walker chance.



When we play well, when the pack bend the line, we look at Williams, Dufty, Currie and Ashton. In that order. They are ones to get us in the backfield. There are shortcomings in this team, and lots of them, but they all stem from a gigantic pack being humbled time and again by people who want it more. We don’t have momentum starters, those who just get the nose through and win the ruck. Hill and Cooper were fantastic at that, late footwork at the line. But we cut them and replaced them with mannequins Goliath's. I’d go as far as taking a wager that Hill has made double the meters of Dudson this year.

It'd be a lot more than double I'd reckon.



Hill 2076m Avg Gain 7.75

Dudson 699 Avg Gain 6.79

That is ridiculous. Could probably roll in any other prop than Vaughan from our squad and Hill would still be clear.



Dudson is probably closer to Cooper’s total, who played what, 10 games. (Don’t post the stats, I don’t actually want to see how bad it is)

Take your point, he's not the most active defender, and deliberately missing may be a stretch but he doesn't look interested, in that part, which to me is fine if the other part of his game outweighs it. With coaches they will look at the strengths and weaknesses is Konrad Hurrell a great defender no but he gets picked in the best team in the omp for the past 4 years, also the time span you alluded too he had some injuries and its difficult to come back the same player.



Take your point that 2nd row isn't the biggest weakness, and sort of on the prop debate. Devils advocate again Vaughan I'd say is better than both Hill or Cooper certainly currently maybe the majority of the time. I think Mikaele is the sort of prop you describe certainly the start of the season but is start to show glimpses again. Dudson and Kasiano just not cut it.



If I was to list our main issues, 2nd row would be further down the list especially with Fitzgibbon coming next year.

fair enough.... anyway.. i heard a rumour that we are trying to recruit a new player and replace Currie.. sending him out on loan to Lei... erm Widnes.

I've been making this point since the start of last year, currie (and holmes last year) were extremely noticeable by their 'inaction' in a lot of tries we conceded last year, and you can add lack of effort to a few that currie was involved in that he 'should' have done better,

Back to recruitment stuff.....Fitzgibbon has had shoulder reconstruction surgery twice in his career. Let's hope he doesn't turn out to be another busted Aussie simply topping up his pension.

I respect everyone’s opinion, and you have yours. I just struggle to see how anyone gets picked every week if this is accurate. Under different coaches, including being picked by the infamously demanding Wane.

And yet, Peter matautia...

His shoulder might go again, but I don't think he does fall into that category. The NRL commentators seem to quite rate him as a hard working player.

With Matautia, in my opinion, is that he is playing at 7 out of 10 of his own ability. He’s just simply not a very good player. He does the basics well, defends well unless he has a decision to make, carries the ball often but without losing a threat etc. but he simply doesn’t have the skill the be any better than he currently is. He’s no worse than Ratchford, or Iain Thornley, or similar. Just an example of poor recruitment.



The thing with Currie is that we expect. If Jack Hughes did what Currie has done this season, there would be a thread saying how good Hughes is and what a genius Lam is for unlocking his unfulfilled potential. But we expect from Currie. It’s not unusual to see him make the final pass for a try, or to get through the line. He’s just held to a higher bar.

A lot of what you've said there about matautia, he didn't do last year, didn5 defend, couldn't tackle wouldn't pass and was dropping the ball at the pub.



There were calls for him to be dropped last season as all round he was worse than mamo who could create breaks for himself.



Same with Holmes, same with currie and a couple others, powellngot asked about it several times by the guardian, fans want to know why you're not dropping the worst suspects.



Go back and have a look at some of our worst defeats last year and you'll see Ben currie taking a break

I’ve been one of the most vocal critics of Matautia. He’s just not a good player. When posed a problem, he invariable makes the wrong decision. See the Wigan cup game with the ball in hand, and the early season defence on his side despite in a winning team.



Looking back to last year and singling out Currie is redundant, really. I’m sure there are multiple occasions where tries were conceded on his side, but in truth the only positive to come out of 2022 was that left block of Williams Currie Wardle and Ashton which looked like it could cause problems



I’m not suggesting that Currie is the ultimate professional or has been firing on all cylinders, I just think to suggest that he is missing tackles on purpose is slightly unhinged. When used right, he’s a really talented and dangerous player. He just seems to have become the latest scapegoat, when anyone watching objectively can see that there are at least 6 starting positions that need fixing before we even look at him.

i disagree, and i speak as someone who loved 2016 ben currie, and has defended him to the hilt as he's recovered from his 2 acl surgeries when people had their knives out for him over the 3 years after that.



Last year my opinion changed because it was visible, what he WASn'T doing, and that had nothing to do with his knee, i've even used the left side argument my self when talking about toby king in 21,



2 or 3 decent lines run a year when williams is motoring isn't a good pay off, the defences dont respect him, and he gets targeted in attack.



that try against saints where he 'lost his hips' if you go back and look you'll find lots of examples where thats happened, would you see a saints or wigan forward like that? or would you see them trying to make a last ditch tackle?

https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... seas-spot/

https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... seas-spot/

That’s great news KT. Shame I won’t be there to see him collect an 8 match ban for running with conviction. Or whatever the MRP want to dream up…. Seems to me it doesn’t matter who we sign. If you’re not wearing red and white, don’t bother.

I’m not sure he does ‘lose his hips’ for the Saints try. If you watch the play unfold, Mikaele is slow to shift from his position at C defender, opening a gap up slightly. Currie’s man at that point is Lees, Mikaele picking up the ball carrier (Knowles, I think) but he doesn’t get close. There’s no inside push because Dufty is at B and looks to sink behind the line. I’m an ideal world, inside push means that Currie can move on one, Mikaele has an outside shoulder on Lees and the inside man cover Knowles. But that doesn’t happen, so Currie has to defend Lees. When the ball goes, Hayes shoots out of the line, but Ratchford and Ashton don’t. The last pass, Mikaele still hasn’t passed the mark of 20m in from the touch line. Hayes is beyond the ball and it’s a 3 vs 2 and Ashton guesses wrong.



The root cause isn’t Currie’s hips at all, it’s the fact that we’re so slow and pedestrian when pushing from the middle that we can’t cover the numerical advantage.



The same happens with the first try. Mikaele doesn’t make an effort on Lomax, barely even in the screen, leaving Crowther worried about being stepped and not making a move. Drinkwater should do better, but at that point Lomax is outside of Crowther as Crowther has had to compensate for the lazy effort from Mikaele. That’s on 11 minutes. Lazy efforts on 11 minutes. From a guy we’ve flown half way around the world. TWICE.

The thing with Currie is that he only really becomes an asset to the team when the team is playing well. When the team isn't playing well he just seems to go through the motions. At the end of the day he's a second rower and not a 3rd centre so he needs to chip in and contribute to the forward graft. Someone compared the yards made by Saints' Matautia to Vaughan and Michaele in the Saints game with Matautia making roughly the same as both combined. It's no coincidence to me that Matautia has been backed up by strong contributions from the seconds rows and loose forward to tire out the Wire forwards. We need this also from the likes of Currie in these tough games or our props be knocked out the game like last Friday.

To a point I agree, Currie is a luxury player for teams who want to attack with width and pace. He is most effective behind a strong pack that creates a platform. And I agree that he needs to contribute to that more, but the challenge for a coach is to make the best use of the puzzle pieces.



Dufty is in his best form with us, and for most of his career. But, he’s not playing the third pivot like 99% of full backs so. We have tailored the role to suit the player. There’s no negativity on that, because he can, when given position in good ball, turn those chances into points. The same should be said for Currie. He can carry the ball one off the ruck, run 10 yards and play the ball. Of course he can. The question for the coach is whether he should, or do we get to shape, punch through the middle and then use the width.



Chambers to his credit is putting the Dufty shaped peg in the Dufty shaped hole. The same needs to be done for the rest of the team. It shouldn’t just be the number on your shirt dictating how you play.

Well he takes up final quota spot so if he we have designs on anyone else would mean shipping another out. Drinkwater or Kasiano or Dufty.

Be very happy if Drinkwater and Kasiano went

last one on this for me before uncle rico shouts at me(correctly) for thread digression, i didn't think he lost his hips, someone on the matchday thread made that excuse for him, i think he just couldn't be d, which is the problem now,



mikaele had a reyt stinker first half

Well we already have replacements for them in the current group.

It would leave us with two more Quota places too.