Who?

Mark Jones was seen as a real hard man in RU, Hull paid £100,000 for him and he was awful, a complete pudding. I think he turned out for Warrington too if I'm not mistaken?

Point taken. Many apologies. It is the O.F. tendency coming to the fore again.

In mitigation, there are some contributors to this forum who express opinions about players they have never seen play.

If it makes you feel any better, I remember Eric. Classy, orthodox FB and a good goal kicker. Played with some decent backs too; Melling, Aspinall, Glover on the wing, Edwards and then Gordon at SH. He left around '64 I think, when a certain ageing Charlie Winslade had a season with us, still showcasing his outrageous offloads. Happy days, but before the Boer War, so not many on here will be interested.

Yes, I'm another one who saw Eric Fraser play, so there's a chance that us older gentlemen may not be in the minority... albeit a very small chance. I also remember Tommy Conroy coming onto the scene as a young fullback. Not great in attack but awesome in defence. In one game against Wigan he stopped a tank-like Billy Boston dead in his tracks. Billy was so impressed/ surprised that he shook hands with the young Tommy.

IMO John Gallagher's failure in RL was more about mentality than ability. There was nothing wrong with his natural talent, he was a brilliant natural runner suited to RL, yes he would have had to improve some aspects of his game to adapt to league but so did Davies and within half a season he was there.



The best way to sum this up is to look at the contrasting fortunes of Gallagher and Matthew Ridge, who both crossed codes at the same time. Of any RU convert to league, Gallagher was the biggest coup, at the time he signed, because he was regarded as the world's best player in RU. Ridge was second choice fullback for the All Blacks at the time, and had a handful of caps for them. Gallagher and Ridge announced RL deals the same week which left NZRU pretty gutted.



At this time there were a lot of RU players trying their hand in league but it was a hard environment because league players used to test the converts out and see if they were tough enough, hence Gallagher getting the 'treatment' which went too far with a spear tackle that ruined his career. Before then Gallagher had started off OK and I remember him being talked of as a GB call up just before that spear tackle (Gallagher is actually English, he moved to NZ when he was young). Whether it was physical damage or psychological damage, he was never the same player again.



I've seen a fair few interviews with Gallagher and he comes over as a good bloke, school teacher, pretty easy going, he talks rugby league up in the press down there and he doesn't shy away from admitting that he didn't make it here. I reckon he had the same problem that Graeme Hick did in international cricket, he was a nice guy with great talent that didn't have a win-at-all-costs gritty mentality.



Ridge was the total opposite, he did not have Gallagher's talent and was quite small for a rugby player, he was like Hodgson physically. But he had total unshakeable self belief and he was hard, he used to mouth off at the Aussies and sledge them. I remember a story about an Aus v NZ Test where the Aussies were smashing them in the first half, NZ scored just before half time and Ridge (who was Kiwis captain) went round shouting at the Aussies that they were finished and would get overrun in the second half, and NZ did just that...



Ridge didn't mind controversy and the Aussies used to hate him but he was the type of personality that wouldn't have minded being tested out by league players that thought he was a soft union player and wanted to see if he was hard enough, he would have just copped the hits and sledged them. Gallagher was the nice guy who was probably easier to bully.

I'm not 100% in agreement with that.



Ultimately it depends what you want from your team. If you want a third pivot, then Hodgson does a great job of that. Radlinksi and Wellens were both different players and in certain teams (ie ones with enough creativity in the halves and loose forward) I would select Radlinski or Wellens for those teams.



I liked Hodgson, but I think the quality of his play was overstated. Some of his 1 on 1 defence was laughable, his kick return could be very weak and slow and his error count could be extremely high. Of course he had a lot of benefits, his calmness and maturity really helped us over the last few years, and his pass selection was usually of the highest order as was his timing coming into the line.



It will be interesting to see what happens now without this style of fullback in the team but if I'm honest I was already preferring the faster and more elusive Ratchford at 1 when he played there and I'm looking forward to seeing Russell.



Hodgson was a very good player and we should appreciate what he did for the team, but he was nowhere near perfect. I should clarify that I saw little of his career before he came to SL so am only judging him on the latter years of his career.

Keith Affleck took over in the mid 60's at fullback. Average player but a good kicker.

Yes, I would agree with that, he was not one that stuck in my mind. I think Geof Bootle (who took over the kicking duties) had a few games at FB as well.



I didn't realise you were quite that old BW.

Don't forget that excellent defensive fullback between Fraser & Affleck......Tommy Conroy .

Hang on a minute. I started in 1966 and can remember Jeff Bootle being at FB then. He got injured at the end of the 1965-66 season and Affleck came in and scored a superb try at Leigh on Easter Monday on the TV. He then stayed in the side as Bootle retired for a while because of work commitments. Tommy Conroy at this time was the regular A team FB, and when he didn't play it was Tony Scahill.Tommy was a superb defender, but didn't have a lot of pace. Alex Murphy later converted him to the back row.

I seem to remember Conroy after Fraser .I know Affleck was a regular A team fullback for a while & seemed to come in playing more games because of his goal kicking which went from brilliant to horrendous on occasions. Didn't Bootle come in after Affleck. When Conroy played the goalkicker at the time was Laurie Gilfedder .



I never remember Conroy going in the forwards due to work & family commitments which meant i lost touch with the game for the best part of 20 years .

I think he still lives in Blackpool.

A few stats.



Jeff Bootle. Signed from Wigan.

Debut, 1.2.64.

Last game, 19.4.69 (Possibly in the RL Cup semi v Salford, L 16-7).

165 (+6 as sub) appearances.

42 Tries, 333 goals, 12 drop goals.



Tommy Conroy. I believe he was a Wigan lad.

Debut, 21.10.61.

Last game, 2.11.75.

262 (+50 as sub) appearances.

27 tries, 3 goals.



Keith Affleck. Warrington lad.

Debut, 12.4.63.

Last game, 5.9.69.

88 (+8 as sub) appearances.

15, tries, 197 goals, 3 drop goals.

The late 50s back line of Frazer,Bevan,Challinor,Naughton,Gilfedder,Greenough and Edwards was as good as any I have seen in the P&B. Unfortunately they played behind a mediocre pack which, too often, got second prize. If they had played behind the Oldham pack that the great Charlie Winslade was a member of in his pomp they would have been world beaters.

Although in the twilight of his career, like the other veteran who came at the fag-end of his career, Nat Silcock, Charlie was still able to show the rest of the pack a thing or two.

Well you are starting to push my memory there, and it is nowhere near as good as Teeside's. I can remember all the names, probably because dad talked about them at the match. Ally Naughton, I can remember nothing. Jim Challinor and Laurie Gilfedder I remember quite well. Didn't Laurie defect to Wigan. Bobby Greenough and Jackie Edwards were a great pair, but I only remember them in the Autumn of their careers. I loved Parry Gordon, but even though I only saw the tail end of Edwards, I suspect he was the better SH. Dad says that they were both eclipsed by Gerry Helme. The great Bevan, alias 'the mummy', I only saw a handful of times (I think). I suspect he must have started taking me along to the rugby around 1960-61. I remember being more interested in the trains shunting up and down the line, and wondering when the final whistle was going to blow.

My memory is only good because it doesn't go quite as far back as yours. I missed people like Fraser and Bev, but I can remember Jim Challinor playing for Barrow and 1954 Final 13 Austin Heathwood lived round the corner from us. I can remember Laurie Gilfedder playing for Wigan, but most of the good Wire players had retired by the time I started watching. This has taken us a bit off topic, but it's really good to have a good talk on all things Wire.

Anyway, is Brett Hodgson still even in this country at the moment?

Steve Hesford owns a hotel near Blackpool Tower called The Almeria now. Stayed there a few months ago. Good place to go for anyone wanting to reminisce about his playing days. He seemed chuffed when he seen my mates Warrington shirt when we walked in.

thanks I'll remember that if I ever go there again.

That's great to know. Not been to Blackpool for a while but might just pop up there. From the hotel review website -



Steve Hesford, the Former Warrington Rugby League player is the new owner of this lovely 8 bedroom, all en-suite Blackpool guest house.We are situated minutes away from the town centre, Tower Complex, Winter Gardens & the Piers. A short tram ride will take you to Blackpool pleasure beach or North to Cleveleys and the famous Fleetwood Market.

www.laterooms.com/en/p1301/pv162 ... &WT.srch=1

www.laterooms.com/en/p1301/pv162 ... &WT.srch=1

I had occasion a good few years ago to pay a Sunday morning visit to Wilderspool, for what I can't remember, and stood at the counter waiting to be attended to. There was just one person in the office standing with his back to me stroking his lustrous locks and generally admiring himself in the mirror and that was none other than Steve(don't call me Shirley) Hesford...He eventually caught my reflection in the mirror and spun round looking very embarrassed by his display of self-love. Some time later at Knowsley Road the Saints fans were getting on his back as usual and he seemed to lose his rag....At that time Saints had made a premium signing from Cumbria, I can't remember his name but could have been Moorby...The said star signing made a break down the left and *Shirley* decided to vent his frustration and ran across and hit him like a steam locomotive...The player went down and had to be taken from the field by stretcher and I don't think he ever played again...He may have been a good looker but Hesford was as hard as anybody I ever saw.

Hesford was a funny one - We signed him from Fylde RU, and on first impressions he looked a pretty mediocre player. In fact, its fair to say he only made the team because of his exceptional kicking. He was often shunted out to the wing, to keep his involvement in the actual game to a bare minimum.



However, when Derek Finnigan packed up, Hesford got his break, being moved to full back and finally looking worthy of a place for more than just his kicking - We've definitely had better full backs, but I don't think we have ever seen a better kicker.

It was said he was offered a lucrative deal to kick field goals in grid iron football....can anyone remember or shed light on this?

Gerry Helme, the first man to win the Lance Todd twice was a brilliant scrum half. He had a famous tackling technique where he used the momentum of big forwards and throw them in a sort of Cumberland throw. His partnership with Ray Price is the first I have strong memories of. Ray was a pocket battle ship, tremendously strong and hard as nails. St Helens in those days were coached by Jim Sullivan and were very physical and games with them were wars of attrition. We never finished with thirteen men and Danny Naughton sustained a career ending broken leg. Ray Price revelled in this atmosphere and dished out so many pastings that, in 1956, Saints bought him off us. On balance though for sheer footballing entertainment I thought Edwards and Greenough were brilliant to watch and my personal favourite combination.