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| Quote Cruncher="Cruncher"I'm another one who finds it difficult to celebrate the drain of talent from the Super League.
While I accept that it will make those players who leave better in the long run - though we've yet to see much evidence of this in international fixtures - our domestic game, which is more important than our international game at present (as the Aussies aren't interested in the latter), will be the ultimate loser.
There's something else we should stop kidding ourselves about. As far as many in the NRL are concerned, the ESL might as well be a different sport. They certainly don't look upon us as a partner or even a little brother. As far as many over there are concerned, we don't even exist - except as an occasional provider of talent now that their new financial arrangements allow them to spend more money. Thus, the NRL will continue to get stronger as it floods its ranks with British talent as well as home-grown talent, while our game - which insists on clinging to its outdated salary cap rules - will continue to dwindle domestically.
Is it not bad enough that every year at least one of our promising young backs is pinched by Rugby Union - you know, that problem that was never even going to arise according to the pro-cappers! - without us starting losing our best forwards to Australia?
We need to weigh up the pros and cons of this and finally get real. The domestic game will be a lot worse off if we keep losing the likes of Eastmond, Graham etc. How long before Roby and the Tomkins brothers get targeted? And what will the response be from SL sides if they keep losing this level of home-grown talent, apart from yet again being forced to dip into the ranks of NRL has-beens? It's a very poor trade-off, to be frank. And for what ... for the possible creation some time in the distant future of an England first-team which, probably quite briefly, will be able to compete with the Australians? (The last time we were able to do that was in the early 90s, when there was no salary cap and some of the best players in the world were at British RL clubs).
Are we now to become a seed-bed of talent for both Rugby Union and the NRL? Never seeing the benefit of it ourselves?
Why should clubs like Wigan and Saints, who produce lots of good kids, even bother? Why don't they just buy mercenaries all the time?
I'm afraid the problem here is still the lack of cash available in the British game. Like it or loathe it, we desperately need to find a way to put more money in the pockets of our marquee players, to encourage them to stick around a bit longer.'"
Great post. The cap, although evened up the Super League has in affect 'dumbed it down'. The whole idea was to stop clubs getting into financial difficulties by preventing them from spending too much on players. This hasn't worked though has it, look at Wakefield etc.
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| Quote Wigan/Leeds Andy="Wigan/Leeds Andy"I asked you before if you knew the different between a view and a fact - the answer is obviously no. I can't have a view on the numbers involved, it's a matter of fact. I've also already said about three times I don't know the numbers involved. There seems to be a bit of a recurring theme here of you not bothering to read what I written on numerous occasions when I've clarified something.
You seem to be in a minority of one to have decided that "these things have always happened" in relation to top players moving to Aus could in anyway be a judgement on the actual numbers. I'd imagine no matter how many people read that, you'd still be in a minority of one who would make up the same interpretation.'"
Yes, you [i[u eventually [/u[/isaid you didn't know the numbers involved.
Yes, I know the difference between a view and a fact. (Though I'm now worried we could get into a philosophical debate about whether there is such a thing as a objective "fact"; or indeed a scientific debate about whether due to quantum theory anything is knowable precisely. Given your track record of vitriolic objections to harmless and reasonable inferences I would be very reluctant to get involved in a discussion on those topics...!)
You don't appear to understand that what you mean when you write something may not be what other people quite reasonably think you mean. Language is not precise like mathematics, it is by definition open to interpretation.
I've given you an example of how your phrase "these things have always happened" would be totally inappropriate if you changed the numbers, but stick with your "minority of one" argument if it makes you feel better..
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| Quote Deano G="Deano G"Yes, you [i[ueventually [/u[/isaid you didn't know the numbers involved.
Yes, I know the difference between a view and a fact. (Though I'm now worried we could get into a philosophical debate about whether there is such a thing as a objective "fact"; or indeed a scientific debate about whether due to quantum theory anything is knowable precisely. Given your track record of vitriolic objections to harmless and reasonable inferences I would be very reluctant to get involved in a discussion on those topics...!)
You don't appear to understand that what you mean when you write something may not be what other people quite reasonably think you mean. Language is not precise like mathematics, it is by definition open to interpretation.
I've given you an example of how your phrase "these things have always happened" would be totally inappropriate if you changed the numbers, but stick with your "minority of one" argument if it makes you feel better..'"
Given the number of times you've asked me for my "view" of the numbers involved it looks like my repeated clarification of what is a view and what is a fact has thankfully, finally hit home.
I also said some time ago I didn't know the facts on the numbers involved and have had to repeat it on a number of occasions - again it looks like my repeated clarification has thankfully, finally hit home.
Of course, I've never made any statement claiming to know them in the first place - you incorrectly claimed I did and haven't been able to get over the fact when pointed out.
Unfortunately it looks like you can't quite make the final leap of faith and want to continue your bizarre interpretation of what I said. I suppose 2 out of 3 is more than we could have hoped for in the circumstances.
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| ladies, please...
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| Quote Wigan/Leeds Andy="Wigan/Leeds Andy"Given the number of times you've asked me for my "view" of the numbers involved it looks like my repeated clarification of what is a view and what is a fact has thankfully, finally hit home.
I also said some time ago I didn't know the facts on the numbers involved and have had to repeat it on a number of occasions - again it looks like my repeated clarification has thankfully, finally hit home.
Of course, I've never made any statement claiming to know them in the first place - you incorrectly claimed I did and haven't been able to get over the fact when pointed out.
Unfortunately it looks like you can't quite make the final leap of faith and want to continue your bizarre interpretation of what I said. I suppose 2 out of 3 is more than we could have hoped for in the circumstances.'"
Tedious in the extreme.
I've had to explain to you how language works, I've given you an example that shows how reasonable my interpretation was (to which I note you haven't responded, because you can't without looking foolish) and even explained how I actually had no motive to make the fabrication you seem to think I made and are so het up about - which means that even if you were right, which of course you aren't, my innocent comment would not have deserved the ludicrous attacks directed at me by you on this thread (to which I have not responded in the same way).
You've added new issues like the difference between a view and fact, the relevance of which is unclear, in what appears to be an attempt to prolong an argument you have lost, having raised a point that you shouldn't have, in terms that you shouldn't have.
I won't be commenting any further on your ridiculous allegations on this thread because others are getting very bored by this (as am I).
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| Quote Deano G="Deano G"Tedious in the extreme.'"
At least that's something we can agree on. Perhaps you shouldn't have made things up in the first place eh.
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