Great post. I know twitter is 99% bull. But some on there gives you facts and figures and breakes them down. Jamie Jenkins for anyone who likes to see where we are is great. Mainly does some media work. BBC Wales GB News and radio. Shows where hospitalisation really stands rather than what we get by papers.



As for debating matters people have become entrenched in their view. Way too many get news on this from MSM who are obviously forced into following Gov message. Professor Gupta world leading in their Field is not even seen on BBC due to not following the narrative. And you got to wonder why.

It's a good point. The Centre for Disease Control (CDC) in the US shows stats in that way:



[urlhttps://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1472932495092232201[/url

Very interesting, very simple to understand

I too wish they were more transparent with this next level of detail.



I am guessing it could be due to not being able to link the information? I haven’t ever tested positive but what are the different ways you officially report it? Are there ways that are not linked to your NHS account?



Regardless, it should be possible and could be used to encourage vaccine uptake? The risk is though that it encourages those with boosters to mix more than they planned and causing an increase in transmission, hospitalisations etc.



I remember seeing something on the bbc the other day and I am sure it said 9/10 people in hospital with serious illness hadn’t had both vaccines or hadn’t had the booster

We've had lockdowns which have failed. We were told that vaccines would be the passport to freedom, not true because 90% of adults have been vaccinated and we are no nearer being released from this authoritarian grip. Perhaps, just perhaps, we should try something different! I suggest herd immunity and focused protection and then we can get back to normality. The Great Plague didn't last as long as this and that happened more than 450 years ago!!! Listen to this lot at your peril.

Its being widely reported in the media that approx 85% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated people.

Correct, lockdowns don't work, and I think that if this Government tries to impose something that they clearly don't practice themselves, they will experience the wrath of the Public.

Boris et al, continuously preach the merits of the third jab, but for Christ's sake please provide the evidence to back this up! There was a report on the BBC late last night regarding the surge of Covid cases in New York, a part of which showed a graph of infections over time. New infections amongst the fully vaccinated remained low but constant; partially vaccinated still relatively low but rising slightly, whilst the line representing the unvaccinated was rising exponentially.

Let's see what the situation is here, and then let the public determine, and act upon, their own individual risk assessment based on that data.

I'm fully vaccinated, and since restrictions were lifted, I've still always worn a face covering in shops and public transport, and I still go to the pub once or twice a week and meet up with friends (who have operated on a similar cautious vein). We're all fine, thankfully.

So the rest of the population who have acted responsibly throughout all of this potentially will be punished for the actions of the selfish, reckless and feckless minority.

Imagine the scenario where a child suffering a serious trauma was denied an ICU bed because the last place had been taken up by an unvaccinated Covid patient.

Which lockdowns failed and why?



- Too late into lockdown?

- Insufficient rules in lockdown?

- Rules not being followed by public?



The vaccines did grant us freedom until a new variant came about that started to evade the vaccines.



Hasn't the herd immunity theory been rubbished? How will that work?



By focused protection do you mean just shield the elderly and the vulnerable and just let "the rest of us get on with it"?



Sounds like you're arguing against vaccines and lockdowns without suggesting any plausible alternatives.

Please send a link to this, will be an interesting read.

Haven't they already provided the evidence that demonstrates Omicron evading those who have had 2 vaccinations and once you have the booster you are protected around 80-85%? What more is there to say?

my sister works in the ICU she said 100% are

Basically, yep.



The anti-vax argument of libertarianism and freedom of choice is going to end up removing everyone's freedoms

I’ve been and had my booster, despite what I said merely a week ago.



Few reasons really; I can see where it’s going (double jabbed plus booster) for the ‘passport’ they say doesn’t exist but does. Also I can’t remember who posted it but the ‘primary school - 1st jab, secondary school - 2nd jab and university - booster jab’ comparison. In addition I’ve done some research, I think as nathan_rugby advised, and everywhere I’ve read is that the booster is 80-85% effective. Or to put simply my “I’m not listening to this shower of the proverbial anymore” argument is essentially biting my nose to spite my face.



That said, I still don’t believe lockdowns or restrictions are viable anymore, not just because of this shower in charge but how many more times do we do it? Every winter? There’s always a flu spike around this time hence the yearly flu jab drive. Perhaps that’s what’ll happen with COVID or, as would make better sense (and if possible!) the COVID jab is incorporated into the flu jab. Clearly I’m no medicinal scientist, I’ve no idea if that’s possible or already has been done, but if it is possible surely that’s the way to go?



I’d imagine masks and jabs are going to be around for quite sometime, even if there are no rules regulating the wearing of them. Wearing a mask doesn’t bother me in all honesty, so much so today I forgot I was wearing it and drove home from the club shop in my car on my own with it still on. The few good things to come out of all this though are better community spirit, better all round hygiene and a far better and deeper understanding of what family and friendship actually mean.

Quote nathan_rugby="nathan_rugby"Please send a link to this, will be an interesting read.'" It was quoted in the media by Dr Hilary, Lorraine Kelly, Martin Kemp Jeremy Vine and others and its bull. They got called out on it. None have accepted an offer to debate them with Jamie Jenkins who breaks down the data. https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 38736/amp/ People hear it on tv and do not question it https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet ... 4245481476 Its obvious vaxx does help but what does not help is blatantly lying. Some are anti vaxx and you will never change their minds when ppl lie.

Quote nathan_rugby="nathan_rugby"Please send a link to this, will be an interesting read.'" It was quoted in the media by Dr Hilary, Lorraine Kelly, Martin Kemp Jeremy Vine and others and its bull. They got called out on it. None have accepted an offer to debate them with Jamie Jenkins who breaks down the data. https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 38736/amp/ People hear it on tv and do not question it https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet ... 4245481476 Its obvious vaxx does help but what does not help is blatantly lying. Some are anti vaxx and you will never change their minds when ppl lie.

How often is this 'fact' stated by the media though? This should be rammed down everyone's throat every day and night, time after time ad nauseum. This is the way out of this nonsense. I may be being a little cruel here, but I feel that the media are only interested in reporting the doom and gloom sensational aspects.....

the top and bottom of all this is, it's got absolutely nothing to do with anybody else over what other people have decided to do or not do for whatever their reason no matter how loud anybody shouts, judges or stereotypes others. People need to wind their necks in and stop butting in to other peoples personal choices whether you agree or not.

Nonsense.. when other peoples choices / actions result in possible negative changes to my and my families freedom and health, then I have every right to voice my concerns about their decisions.

Not really no.



It has everything to do with me when I have to WFH, can't go to the rugby or socialise with friends or family because some d! head won't get vaccinated.

Oh i see. I was going to leave it there because what i said was the right thing to say but seeing as you have poked the bear and me being one of those d! heads, let me address you.



There are a lot of fake facts being spouted on this thread and have been watching it for a few days but enough is enough. I had to speak. Let me tell you 2 absolute facts about Covid and Vaccination. In August we buried my grandad. He was as fit as a fiddle and always had been until he had his 2 jabs. From about May we could see the decline, it was very quick, all of a sudden he was very frail and very yellow. Test after test showed nothing until at the start of August the found it. A blood clot on his liver, just appeared out of nowhere and killed him. We wanted it investigating believing it's cause was the vaccine but they wouldn't do it. They hurried him into the ground and the mystery remains.



Fact 2. My auntie died the summer before last. She had terminal bladder cancer and took a turn for the worse so she had to go in for her final days. She and all the family knew what was happening but while she was in hospital she caught Covid. She finally succumbed to her cancer about a week after going in. When the death certificate arrived she had died of Covid-19 apparently. We tried to contest it but to no avail. Why? because that wasn't the reason she died.



I don't care if people label me, stereotype me, call me a 'Karen from Facebook' (i don't have Facebook incidentally, it's absolute twaddle) I have had two close contacts with this supposed mass killer. The killer that you can die of after already being killed in a car crash 28 days after having it. A virus that has made big pharma billions of pounds in income in vaccinations. A vaccination that is in an experimental phase until 2023 so nobody is liable until that year. If you have your life saving antidote after that date you will be able to sue those companies for some of those billions. This latest variant has been proven to be like a mild cold and has directly killed nobody so why the hysteria? Sure the media will tell you somebody died with it but not because of it. They love sensational stories like 'Suchabody dies after contracting covid' factually true but the covid was months before in one case so heavily bending the truth. Why do we only take the advice of one scientist when there are thousands of others out there saying different things? Why can't this be debated? Do we just listen to one person? Maybe the media have learned their lesson of listening to an opposing view. They gave people like Farage a platform during Brexit thinking there was no chance of the result they didn't want. Whoops, now those people have all been annexed and silenced by the main stream media. The same thing is being applied here. Striking fear into people and preventing them for seeing their families. I see people on their own driving their car with a mask on, what the hell. The government wants you to hide behind the sofa whilst they have garden parties, eye tests 300 miles away and 'cheese and wine' meetings. I can't remember the exact figure but it was certainly over 60% of the people in hospital are double or triple jabbed so what is the point? 'Get jabbed for your freedoms back' and you all fell for it, mugs. Everybody gave them that little bit of power and now they know they can push it whenever they want because the test of obedience was a general success. I know an awful lot of pro lockdown merchants who have now changed their tune though. What is the point in having a vaccination if you can still (allegedly) die, catch it and spread it? You will be in this cycle forever until some have the balls to say 'enough'. The people with the vaccination are the ones that are mutating the virus and creating different strains. We can go on and on and on and on. I can come back with many arguments but i won't be commenting further after this no matter what is said because this thread will roll to 100 pages if i do. It's time we moved on form all of this hyperbole and got on with life. Damaging your immune system by hiding away and not catching even a common cold is dangerous. You need those viruses to keep your immune system ticking over so i would say the ones who are complying are the ones more at risk. None of that e is being pumped into me no matter what they threaten us with. Covid passes etc etc. No problem, there will be fakes and stuff like that created. This will all blow over and take a back seat when the media find another story to push. Just as Covid took over from Brexit. When was the last time you heard about Brexit? So yes, i am a d! head. No problem. I will see you at the supermarket. You will be able to notice me. I am the one without the mask on. idiots.

The problem with threads like this, similar to Brexit, is they become toxic. I’ve a foot in either camp on this, I can see both sides and agree in part with both too.



Unfortunately this thread has devolved into “you’re a d*ckhead if you don’t have the vaccine” or “you’re a d*ckhead if you’ve had the vaccine”. Neither are d*ckheads. Like remainders/Brexiters weren’t. The only labelling of d*ckheads I’ll agree with is Tories and Tory voters. But that’s an even more toxic debate and inevitable argument.



For me this thread needs ending here. It’s doing no good for anyone. Leave this thread for The Sin Bin.

wow



pretty sure the government would rather be spending money on literally anything else than furlough and vaccinations at £15 a pop.



Any idea why life expectancy was 47 for a man a hundred years ago whereas it is 79 for a man now? (spoiler alert....it isn't because people in the 1900s hid away from diseases incl. common colds).



The stat 60% of covid hospitalisations being double jabbed, that has stuck in your head was an incorrect stat from a Downing press conference, later corrected, it was actually 60% of covid hospitalisations were unvaccinated - this was last July and as efficacy reduces with time, hence the need for a booster.



You also have seemed to mixed up Covid with the common cold and use the 2 interchangeably, the common cold is approximately 200+ different viruses loosely put under the umbrella for the common cold. We cant vaccinate against these for obvious reasons.



If unfortunately you do get covid and it affects you badly, i hope you have the good decency and the balls to stand up to the virus, saying 'enough is enough' and not to reply upon available drugs and hospital treatment......



With regards to Remain/Stay vaccine/anti-vax, could all be a Tory tactic to divide and conquer, not going particularly well at the moment as it seems to have divided the Tories to the point that the PM cannot govern for fear of losing the support of one or other faction..............

I am not arguing against vaccinations, I am saying they should be targeted at certain parts of the poulation. And, as for not suggesting an alternative I suggested herd immunity and focused protection.



Now, please explain the following to me:



1. What are the benefits of lockdown and how will such an action defeat this virus? If the whole of the UK population had all been confined to their homes from day one, for six months, would it have gone away?

2. Why the obsession with vaccinating everyone in the country and what will it achieve? Do you think variants that appear in other countries will not travel over the ocean? Do you believe that it will have an adverse effect on certain groups of people?

3. Is it necessary to jab every single person in the world (at least three times) to eradicate this disease? And, if so, do you actually think that it is achievable?

4. Why do you believe Sage, et al, when it is clear that many of their predictions have been way off the mark? Why not take a balanced view and look at what other scientists are saying and if their predictions better reflect the actual situation?

5. How many people have been hospitalised or died with Omicron in the UK to date (I asked you this previously but so far you have declined to answer)?

6. Finally, in one of your earlier posts you referred to conspiracy theories, which ones?

Anti vaxxers are just attention seeking bellends who listen to discredited doctors on you tube who are also seeking attention

1 its to stop the nhs being overwhelmed.

2 it speeds up the process to herd immunity

3 herd immunity needs 70 to 90% vaccinated to be effective.

4 sage supply data asked for by the government.

5 14 as of this morning

6 its government trying to control us,it big pharma to make millions its big tech to make millons, its a way to trace us, ect.. ect ect.