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| And to add to my post minutes ago, social distancing isn't stopping the common flu virus killing 13 times more people than covid 19 is it, I rest my case.
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| Quote KevW60349="KevW60349"And to add to my post minutes ago, social distancing isn't stopping the common flu virus killing 13 times more people than covid 19 is it, I rest my case.'"
That number comes from the Sun and Mirror. Its been debunked since then.
It's answered in exactly the same way that Miro justifies Covid.
The numbers you quote are people who died with flu as one of the symptoms on the death certificate..... Not the cause of death.
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| Quote KevW60349="KevW60349"As I said, the common flu virus has been killing more people than Covid 19 and has been since June this year(also verified figures) Anybody with serious health issues are more likely to die also if they contract flu/ pneumonia.
I did point out for healthy people the chances are tiny, the figures by age group are out there and they show the elderly with other health issues are the most likely to die from Covid 19, this also applies to the elderly contracting the flu or pneumonia and currently roughly 13 times more people are dying from flu pneumonia than covid .'" can I ask why is they no fluctuations in the flu deaths due to reduced contact, as it the ability to picked up in a differently as you seem to be quite knowledgeable in the medical department
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| Quote snowie="snowie"can I ask why is they no fluctuations in the flu deaths due to reduced contact, as it the ability to picked up in a differently as you seem to be quite knowledgeable in the medical department'"
There are many strains of the flu virus - hence why even with a vaccine there are still many deaths.
Because of this, contact - even reduced contact would make no difference to the numbers either.
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| Quote PopTart="PopTart"=#FF0040No. I said I was OK with the steps you are asked to follow to go to the pub.
It's a really nieve argument to the it's safer than driving a car or plane etc.
We wear seat belts, have to pass a test, invest millions in car safety features to make it possible to drive and be as safe as possible. And people who don't drive safely are fined or in the extreme put in jail.
For this you are being asked to social distance until they can find equivalent measures to make it safer.
What has always baffled me is that you argue so intelligently yet miss (possibly on purpose) some really obvious points. I don't know whether you are just so adamant about your point that you can't see anything else or that you are just winding people up (which I no longer think is the case)
The very fact that after about 75 pages of discussion you haven't accepted one point made by anyone else makes me think you are lecturing rather than discussing. Would you agree?'"
You said this "and if not going on holiday will stop even 1 person dying I think it's worth it. "
That infers, if I'm not wrong, that someone may die if you fly and therefore, using the same logic someone may die if you drive around in your car...and the rest.
As for the other, I don't agree. I have, for example, answered a question about why so many countries in the world are all in lockstep with each other yet you all ignore this and simply fall back on nit picking two or three words in a sentence and ignore all other points I try to raise.. All talk disends to the rules i.e masks, distancing, statistics real and bogus etc. I have tried to open up the debate to include the bigger picture and provided plenty of links (on the other thread) but almost no one, including yourself, are willing to debate these issues.
For example, I posted the report using links from a scientific panel appointed by the German the interior ministry and composed by external medical experts from several German universities. The report did not accept the official (and your) narrative and was immediatly buried (cencord) by the German government. I won't go back over that but just to say everyone ignored it on this forum (except Wrencat) including you. It was an example of government cencorship that we also have here. That was just one example, or two if you include the lockstep explanation.
So you see Pop Tart, I try to debate but without a response it just seems like I'm "lecturing" and then I end up letting myself be dragged back to nit picking over minor points and yes, I'm guilty of it.
In fact I'm going to nit pick Dreadnought right now.
Naaah !!!
Jeeeez...is that the time, Night all.
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| Quote Miro="Miro"You said this "and if not going on holiday will stop even 1 person dying I think it's worth it. "
That infers, if I'm not wrong, that someone may die if you fly and therefore, using the same logic someone may die if you drive around in your car...and the rest.
As for the other, I don't agree. I have, for example, answered a question about why so many countries in the world are all in lockstep with each other yet you all ignore this and simply fall back on nit picking two or three words in a sentence and ignore all other points I try to raise.. All talk disends to the rules i.e masks, distancing, statistics real and bogus etc. I have tried to open up the debate to include the bigger picture and provided plenty of links (on the other thread) but almost no one, including yourself, are willing to debate these issues.
For example, I posted the report using links from a scientific panel appointed by the German the interior ministry and composed by external medical experts from several German universities. The report did not accept the official (and your) narrative and was immediatly buried (cencord) by the German government. I won't go back over that but just to say everyone ignored it on this forum (except Wrencat) including you. It was an example of government cencorship that we also have here. That was just one example, or two if you include the lockstep explanation.
So you see Pop Tart, I try to debate but without a response it just seems like I'm "lecturing" and then I end up letting myself be dragged back to nit picking over minor points and yes, I'm guilty of it.
In fact I'm going to nit pick Dreadnought right now.
Naaah !!!
Jeeeez...is that the time, Night all.
.'"
But that's the point I guess. If there is a statewide or world wide opinion that you then challenge, the onus is on you to prove your case. You quote single people who challenge but that in itself isn't proof. You tend to then challenge everyone and say prove me wrong.
I haven't got all the facts to hand but I know people are dying because every news agency and every government says so. For you to challenge something that big can't be just done by throwing a fact in here and there. It has to be sound and logical and have substance. Much of your evidence, although very well written works on the basis that everyone else is lying. I just find that hard to believe.
And when we get into specifics like the pub scenario. To me, even if you are right, there is no hardship to rage against. Wearing masks and cleaning hands is just a good idea, covid or flu or other virus.
In terms of crowds at sporting events. That's tough there is no doubt but until the cases of Covid are under control it also seems like a good idea. We suffer more than most as we don't have a lot of money in the sport but it's down to the RFL to find a way.
And the car implication you speak of isn't quite accurate. We all know there is a risk to driving. We don't drive like maniacs following our own rules. We follow government guidelines to drive at a speed limit to make the road safer. So if driving on a motorway that has always been 70 miles an hour, at 60 miles an hour because the limit has changed to make it safer, means it may save one life. Yep I do that. Don't you?
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| Miro can you please tell us all what kind of medical expertise you have to back up all your claims please
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| Quote Miro="Miro"You said this "and if not going on holiday will stop even 1 person dying I think it's worth it. "
That infers, if I'm not wrong, that someone may die if you fly and therefore, using the same logic someone may die if you drive around in your car...and the rest.
As for the other, I don't agree. I have, for example, answered a question about why so many countries in the world are all in lockstep with each other yet you all ignore this and simply fall back on nit picking two or three words in a sentence and ignore all other points I try to raise.. All talk disends to the rules i.e masks, distancing, statistics real and bogus etc. I have tried to open up the debate to include the bigger picture and provided plenty of links (on the other thread) but almost no one, including yourself, are willing to debate these issues.
For example, I posted the report using links from a scientific panel appointed by the German the interior ministry and composed by external medical experts from several German universities. The report did not accept the official (and your) narrative and was immediatly buried (cencord) by the German government. I won't go back over that but just to say everyone ignored it on this forum (except Wrencat) including you. It was an example of government cencorship that we also have here. That was just one example, or two if you include the lockstep explanation.
So you see Pop Tart, I try to debate but without a response it just seems like I'm "lecturing" and then I end up letting myself be dragged back to nit picking over minor points and yes, I'm guilty of it.
In fact I'm going to nit pick Dreadnought right now.
Naaah !!!
Jeeeez...is that the time, Night all.
.'"
nit pick all you want fella, we all know I'm harder than you.
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| Pretty much everyone else except us are allowed to pilot test crowds returning.
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| Quote Willzay="Willzay"Pretty much everyone else except us are allowed to pilot test crowds returning.'"
Why do you think that is?
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| I’m surprised Cas are allowed fans in considering A) It’s Jungle and B) they’re a bunch of scruffs. 
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| Quote TheDreadnought="TheDreadnought"Why do you think that is?'"
We haven’t got a game?
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| Quote Sacred Cow="Sacred Cow"We haven’t got a game?'"
Sports pilots are not able to take place in areas with high coronavirus incidence rates. For this reason the Salford Red Devils v Warrington Wolves fixture, also scheduled for September 30, has not joined the approved list for spectators in the pilot programme.
Why couldn’t a game be arranged involving Trinity at home to one of the above clubs. Makes sense to me. 
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| Quote Dunkirk Spirit="Dunkirk Spirit"Sports pilots are not able to take place in areas with high coronavirus incidence rates. For this reason the Salford Red Devils v Warrington Wolves fixture, also scheduled for September 30, has not joined the approved list for spectators in the pilot programme.
Why couldn’t a game be arranged involving Trinity at home to one of the above clubs. Makes sense to me.
'"
As it stands Belle Vue hasn't had the ok to stage games anyway so why would they re-write the fixture list for a game that might not be able to take place?
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Quote PopTart="PopTart"But that's the point I guess. If there is a statewide or world wide opinion that you then challenge, the onus is on you to prove your case. You quote single people who challenge but that in itself isn't proof. You tend to then challenge everyone and say prove me wrong.
I haven't got all the facts to hand but I know people are dying because every news agency and every government says so. For you to challenge something that big can't be just done by throwing a fact in here and there. It has to be sound and logical and have substance. Much of your evidence, although very well written works on the basis that everyone else is lying. I just find that hard to believe.
And when we get into specifics like the pub scenario. To me, even if you are right, there is no hardship to rage against. Wearing masks and cleaning hands is just a good idea, covid or flu or other virus.
In terms of crowds at sporting events. That's tough there is no doubt but until the cases of Covid are under control it also seems like a good idea. We suffer more than most as we don't have a lot of money in the sport but it's down to the RFL to find a way.
And the car implication you speak of isn't quite accurate. We all know there is a risk to driving. We don't drive like maniacs following our own rules. We follow government guidelines to drive at a speed limit to make the road safer. So if driving on a motorway that has always been 70 miles an hour, at 60 miles an hour because the limit has changed to make it safer, means it may save one life. Yep I do that. Don't you?'"
I don't think I have used the term "proof" but rather it is evidence that has to be taken seriously wether we like it or not. We are not getting evidence to counter the official narrative from main stream journalists or doctors and scientists. But that is not to say hundreds of the latter are, and have been from the start, challenging the words coming out of the mouths of Boris, Bill Whitty and that Hancock fella. I have noticed this almost from day one and that made me suspicious of the BBC, Sky, ITV etc. What I have seen can only be described as "fear porn" that has terrorised huge swaithes of the population.
Listen to the evidence from Eamon Holmes a well known TV and ratio journalist who reveald a couple of weeks ago that journalists are NOT being allowed to ask awkward questions of our politicians, at least not on the BBC, Sky etc.
My evidence does not work on the basis that "everyone else is lying" it is simply evidence. Not "everyone is lying" but the non lyers, those who aren't in the pay of big pharma, Bill Gates etc are being silenced, kicked of platforms such as twitter and youtube. Take Dr Vernon Coleman MB ChB DSc FRSA, as an example. Pretty much opposed to the narrative and why shouldn't he be if that's what he believes but many of his youtube videos were taken down almost as fast as he uploaded them. This is a man who was once a "go to" for the media when medical matters arose and who had regular newspaper columns. But not now, dropped like a hot potatoe since this covid bussiness started. He has since stopped uploading and is now on another platform .Brand New Tube
https://www.vernoncoleman.com/
International best-selling author, Dr Vernon Coleman MB ChB DSc FRSA, shows precisely how mortality figures have been fiddled to make the covid-19 deaths seem frightening. He explains how deaths from flu, pneumonia, dementia and respiratory disease have been listed as covid-19 deaths. He reports on the fact that a third of women with breast cancer have been denied treatment, and how Imperial College has found that the lockdowns which their exaggerated figures triggered, will lead to 1.4 million extra TB deaths.
Take the case of Dr Mohammad Iqbal who has been suspended for 12 months by the GMC simply for speaking out and telling the truth as he saw it from his position as a practicing doctor.
This is a GP with an unblemished 40 year record. Disgracefull the treatment he has recieved. Thankfully hundreds of doctors have signed a petition to have him re instated.
This begs the question, what are the politicians and the mainsteam media afraid of? You should be asking this but so far you appear to take everything they say as gospel.
Thankfully I hear that Hartley-Brewer on Talk radio challenged Whitty quite forcefully on the question of false positives re the testing showing the test to be totaly unreliable.
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Quote PopTart="PopTart"But that's the point I guess. If there is a statewide or world wide opinion that you then challenge, the onus is on you to prove your case. You quote single people who challenge but that in itself isn't proof. You tend to then challenge everyone and say prove me wrong.
I haven't got all the facts to hand but I know people are dying because every news agency and every government says so. For you to challenge something that big can't be just done by throwing a fact in here and there. It has to be sound and logical and have substance. Much of your evidence, although very well written works on the basis that everyone else is lying. I just find that hard to believe.
And when we get into specifics like the pub scenario. To me, even if you are right, there is no hardship to rage against. Wearing masks and cleaning hands is just a good idea, covid or flu or other virus.
In terms of crowds at sporting events. That's tough there is no doubt but until the cases of Covid are under control it also seems like a good idea. We suffer more than most as we don't have a lot of money in the sport but it's down to the RFL to find a way.
And the car implication you speak of isn't quite accurate. We all know there is a risk to driving. We don't drive like maniacs following our own rules. We follow government guidelines to drive at a speed limit to make the road safer. So if driving on a motorway that has always been 70 miles an hour, at 60 miles an hour because the limit has changed to make it safer, means it may save one life. Yep I do that. Don't you?'"
I don't think I have used the term "proof" but rather it is evidence that has to be taken seriously wether we like it or not. We are not getting evidence to counter the official narrative from main stream journalists or doctors and scientists. But that is not to say hundreds of the latter are, and have been from the start, challenging the words coming out of the mouths of Boris, Bill Whitty and that Hancock fella. I have noticed this almost from day one and that made me suspicious of the BBC, Sky, ITV etc. What I have seen can only be described as "fear porn" that has terrorised huge swaithes of the population.
Listen to the evidence from Eamon Holmes a well known TV and ratio journalist who reveald a couple of weeks ago that journalists are NOT being allowed to ask awkward questions of our politicians, at least not on the BBC, Sky etc.
My evidence does not work on the basis that "everyone else is lying" it is simply evidence. Not "everyone is lying" but the non lyers, those who aren't in the pay of big pharma, Bill Gates etc are being silenced, kicked of platforms such as twitter and youtube. Take Dr Vernon Coleman MB ChB DSc FRSA, as an example. Pretty much opposed to the narrative and why shouldn't he be if that's what he believes but many of his youtube videos were taken down almost as fast as he uploaded them. This is a man who was once a "go to" for the media when medical matters arose and who had regular newspaper columns. But not now, dropped like a hot potatoe since this covid bussiness started. He has since stopped uploading and is now on another platform .Brand New Tube
https://www.vernoncoleman.com/
International best-selling author, Dr Vernon Coleman MB ChB DSc FRSA, shows precisely how mortality figures have been fiddled to make the covid-19 deaths seem frightening. He explains how deaths from flu, pneumonia, dementia and respiratory disease have been listed as covid-19 deaths. He reports on the fact that a third of women with breast cancer have been denied treatment, and how Imperial College has found that the lockdowns which their exaggerated figures triggered, will lead to 1.4 million extra TB deaths.
Take the case of Dr Mohammad Iqbal who has been suspended for 12 months by the GMC simply for speaking out and telling the truth as he saw it from his position as a practicing doctor.
This is a GP with an unblemished 40 year record. Disgracefull the treatment he has recieved. Thankfully hundreds of doctors have signed a petition to have him re instated.
This begs the question, what are the politicians and the mainsteam media afraid of? You should be asking this but so far you appear to take everything they say as gospel.
Thankfully I hear that Hartley-Brewer on Talk radio challenged Whitty quite forcefully on the question of false positives re the testing showing the test to be totaly unreliable.
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| Quote snowie="snowie"Miro can you please tell us all what kind of medical expertise you have to back up all your claims please'"
They are not my claims. It is evidence collected from many worthy sources that I am simply passing on. Why do so many of you oppose this questioning of the official narrative? Shouldn't we all be doing this? It's our duty as citizens to question the crap that comes out of the mouths of politicians and their unelected "advisors". If we / I are wrong then so be it but for pitys sake hold them to task and stop shooting the messenger (me).
We were shafted over Newmarket by York Court and the Council AND the government but we questioned everything. But now we meekly lle down and let the buggers walk all over us? Something that is a thousand times more important. Honestly, I was shocked when I came on here and found almost everyone nodding in agreement with all we were being told. I said on here weeks ago they were falsifying the death figures, I was pilloried for that but now the government have admited the figures have been hugley inflated. I didn't need medical expertise to find that out.
In answer to your question, None. 
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| Quote PopTart="PopTart"And on the plan for Belle Vue..... Why ask us.
The RFL have their plan.
Belle Vue will be assessed in its merits for health and safety same as always.'"
Errr, it's forum with a thread called What now for fans watching ? 
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| Quote Miro="Miro"Errr, it's forum with a thread called What now for fans watching ?
'"
So tell us your opinion rather than asking us as a weak way to prove there is a problem.
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| Quote Miro="Miro"They are not my claims. It is evidence collected from many worthy sources that I am simply passing on. Why do so many of you oppose this questioning of the official narrative? Shouldn't we all be doing this? I=#FF0000t's our duty as citizens to question the crap that comes out of the mouths of politicians and their unelected "advisors". If we / I are wrong then so be it but for pitys sake hold them to task and stop shooting the messenger (me).
We were shafted over Newmarket by York Court and the Council AND the government but we questioned everything. But now we meekly lle down and let the buggers walk all over us? Something that is a thousand times more important. Honestly, I was shocked when I came on here and found almost everyone nodding in agreement with all we were being told. I said on here weeks ago they were falsifying the death figures, I was pilloried for that but now the government have admited the figures have been hugley inflated. I didn't need medical expertise to find that out.
In answer to your question, None.
'" yes your correct we should question the crap that comes out of anyone's mouth that's why I questioned you about your medical experience which you had admitted to having zero but you simply read it on line, do you honestly think the government is doing this on purpose in fact the whole world is in for destroy its self,
you only have to look at some of the cranks out there take David Icke for instance gets his crap on the internet you read it and your bought, I'd rather read and listen to the ones with the relative experience and take my judgement from them not a rugby league forum.
I'd rather we error in caution that just open the country up to be overcome with covid 19
stay safe
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| Quote Miro="Miro"They are not my claims. It is evidence collected from many worthy sources that I am simply passing on. Why do so many of you oppose this questioning of the official narrative? Shouldn't we all be doing this? It's our duty as citizens to question the crap that comes out of the mouths of politicians and their unelected "advisors". If we / I are wrong then so be it but for pitys sake hold them to task and stop shooting the messenger (me).
We were shafted over Newmarket by York Court and the Council AND the government but we questioned everything. But now we meekly lle down and let the buggers walk all over us? Something that is a thousand times more important. Honestly, I was shocked when I came on here and found almost everyone nodding in agreement with all we were being told. I said on here weeks ago they were falsifying the death figures, I was pilloried for that but now the government have admited the figures have been hugley inflated. I didn't need medical expertise to find that out.
In answer to your question, None.
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I agree with a lot you say about this topic, there are so many things that don’t make sense coming from the Government and it’s medical experts. So many things swept under the carpet like the illegal immigrants coming over in their thousands, being hushed up by government and main stream media. When something doesn’t seem right, then question it, and use your own common sense, if it looks like a duck.
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| Anyone noticed if games are kicking off at actual time specified? Just asking as now 8.15 kick offs for second match would their be a problem if a game went to golden point and the pub said kicking out time. Not on about our matches but all matches.
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| Quote supercat="supercat"Anyone noticed if games are kicking off at actual time specified? Just asking as now 8.15 kick offs for second match would their be a problem if a game went to golden point and the pub said kicking out time. Not on about our matches but all matches.'"
We've just been chatting about that very subject.
With a 10.0 pm curfew in place, the lights (and TV) will go off at 10.
Dont think it will be a problem on Friday and we could probably do with the curfew being at 8.0, maybe even earlier 
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| Unsurprisingly the government have this morning announced that the plan to get crowds back into stadiums is on hold. I now can’t see any fans attending for the rest of this season. This will have a major impact on all clubs finances, especially as the furlough scheme ends. No crowds for the challenge cup & superleague finals will hit the game hard as well. Tough times ahead.
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| Quote Sacred Cow="Sacred Cow"Unsurprisingly the government have this morning announced that the plan to get crowds back into stadiums is on hold. I now can’t see any fans attending for the rest of this season. This will have a major impact on all clubs finances, especially as the furlough scheme ends. No crowds for the challenge cup & superleague finals will hit the game hard as well. Tough times ahead.'"
Always thought would be the case as thought as soon as schools opened and businesses started sending more back in it would be the case. Think a lot of amateur sport will get knocked on the head as well which is a shame.
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| Quote wrencat1873="wrencat1873"We've just been chatting about that very subject.
With a 10.0 pm curfew in place, the lights (and TV) will go off at 10.
Dont think it will be a problem on Friday and we could probably do with the curfew being at 8.0, maybe even earlier
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I like how the Government thinks a 10 pm curfew will reduce transmissions, when the damage will already have been done by then.
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