anyway thats it as I'm starting to repeat myself...Well done Widnes and if the RFL follow the rules they have laid down it should be a cakewalk to SL for you.

Im sure once back there you will become stronger each year.

Only because you cannot understand what I am trying to tell you. Your post shows it clearly that you have not understood me at all.





Because if Widnes fail to get a licence for 2012, even though we have the best application – your words not mine – what do you think that will do to potential investors in Championship clubs and fans wanting to believe that there is a genuine pathway to SL?



What message would that send out to clubs about running expensive youth set ups?



They may as well just give up trying.







Like I said, should Widnes get a licence, it sets the standard for other clubs to follow, shows that there is actually a pathway to SL for Championship clubs, and may well actually see a club bettering Widnes’ 2012 bid. It’s the impact upon the Championship should Widnes not get the licence that could cause a problem imo.



I’m not saying another CC club couldn’t achieve it, it's just that if the best application, and a dammed good one at that, is rejected then what incentive is there for the Championship clubs if the trap door has clearly been firmly closed behind the heartland clubs for good?



It has nothing to do with arrogance. It will also see the end of Widnes as a future SL club as well.

The way the Championship is going it is unlikely any club will offer a better bid than Widnes do now. Crowds are only going one way and Widnes' are larger and traditionally have been than all the clubs currently in the league.



Like Pepe said, if we get left out we'll very probably not offer a bid as good as we do now.

I'd disagree there Max , we have a salary cap , we've had that cap long before the ending of P and R , this year Widnes have not performed on the pitch , now I'd guess that you have spent within 90 % of the salary cap , I'm sure Steve O connor would have prefered and did indeed hope and expect you to have done better in the league , yes you will argue that it doesn't matter and that is true



So with the salary cap we have the only way to do better would be to shall we say ' find a way of paying players differently '



To his credit it would seem that Mr O connor has not gone down that route



At the end of the day we play in a very good even competition , hopefully next year will be the same , but with once again different winners



All the best

But this is my point, a return to P & R with this salary cap would be ludicrously unfair on a team like Widnes. We've never had P & R where all the teams spend the same amount on their teams. At the end of the day we are a professional sport and a league with promotion and relegation where every team can afford the cap doesn't make any sense. It massively favours teams with low crowds and small revenue and hinders teams with large revenue and bigger crowds.



With the cap at this level we could see Hunslet being promoted next year and Wigan or Leeds getting relegated. Leeds and Wigan would then stand the same 1 in 10 chance of being promoted as the other clubs paying the cap level.

So what you are saying is we should get rid of the salary cap in the Championships only ? , then naturally you will want it removing from SL as well ?



I'm sure you remember where that led us ?

It's not the same thing, there would be much more riding on the Championship than Super League.



For a start the cap is at a level where not all teams can spend up to it. Also it serves a slightly different purpose. In making the league more equal it strengthens the competition which should raise crowds. This is the current idea behind the Championship model as well. It works when there is only a title to be won. If we had P & R there would be far more riding on it.



I'm not advocating a total abandonment of it, just stating that a £300k cap with P & R would be ludicrous. Why should Widnes with the biggest crowds and most revenue only be allowed to be given an equal chance to be promoted, with all the benefits that brings, as Batley? If people are so bothered about it being about what happens on the pitch then surely clubs would be allowed to use what they have off the pitch to dominate on the pitch. If not we may as well become an amateur sport below SL where nobody pays anything.



I'm stating that most people who suggest a return to P & R haven't actually thought about the reality of what a return would mean, which in all likelihood would be Widnes dominating the division on the pitch.

Why should Leeds and W1g4n with the biggest crowds and most revenue only be allowed to be given an equal chance to to be the champions, as Salford



It works both ways Max



Do we really want a situation as we now have in football , where if one club can for whatever reason attract a billionaire businessman , they can buy a team of internationals , and dominate the competition , we are just now in both SL and the Championships having a situation where this year clubs that have not finished top are now doing so , last years winners in both competitions have finished 4 th this year ?

I am not happy with the cap in the Championship and like it to go upto £600,000 so Widnes can dominate.I like winning easily against the poor supported Batley teams etc.



Then i wont here the crap like we are the worst team to be promoted,because we are 5th in the league.

You're up early for school

Ah, excellent. Somebody has responded to a post of mine by taking the time to split it into little sections, disect it and feel that I was looking for an argument. I feel i've made it!



I wasn't saying that you are RFL darlings, but you that are one of the 14 teams that the RFL want to and will put in in 2012. As I said previously, you should be one of super league clubs in 2012, but what has caused the resentment is the way the RFL have yet again managed to turn the whole system into a farce. Why not announce your promotion now, that would mean you can announce things like your Super League season ticket prices, oh hang on...



I gave the examples of Catalans, Celtic and Paris, to remind you that the whole concept of franchising is an emotive one and can lead to resentment, and Widnes fans should know this more than anyone.



To say that no club outside super league will ever submit a better bid than yours is incredibly arrogant in my opinion, and you compare me with the "looney Barrow fans" with the green eyed monster, but the point of my post was to point out why there may be resentment towards the way this round of franchises have been managed, rather than say Widnes don't deserve a franchise.

It's not a difficult thing to do and it allows one to address each point clearly.





If it’s all the RFL’s fault, why are you crying at Widnes fans?



So Widnes are no better than Celtic and Paris etc?





FFS another thick c*nt with an inability read and digest simple information – it's like hammering nails into metal. You have clearly missed the point I was making. It actually includes my own club you idiot!



It only appears arrogant to those who are too stupid to understand the scenario that I have put forward. Read it again and try to understand the context in which it that statement was put. I don’t have the inclination to explain it here, as I have already done that in a later post, and it is perfectly clear in the original post anyway.



The green-eyed monster in some wants desperately to believe that we are arrogant. It gives them something to get all angry about. Unlike the RFL, Widnes fans are here and available to take pot shots at.