define "proper road position"

... and you get a good cross-section of both "fine" and "moron" along the Albert Embankment between Lameth Bridge and Westminster Bridge any weekday morning during the rush hour.

It can be pretty intimidating for pedestrians along there.



Cyclists often mention that they were around before motorists ... well, folks, the pedestrian predates all of you.

Think Pedestrian.

Is that the one that used to be called Lambeth Bridge?

I wasn't referring to your road positioning - IIRC the recommended distance from the kerb is around 18" for the very reasons you state - but rather the attitude towards making yourself as visible as possible.

That's the one.

The Alert Emankment runs eneath it towards Westminster ridge.

I don't eschew hi-viz, I just don't go out lit up like a christmas tree; I wear cycling gear that has hi-viz strips and my bike has powerful lights that comply with the law. For what it's worth, I've never been in an accident or near-miss that hi-viz would have prevented but I have been in two, in broad daylight, that were caused by driver error.



My comments were more in agreement with the attitude that cyclists are seen as vulnerable and an inconvenience; it wouldn't do any harm to look at the number of us who are killed or injured every year and think about ways to educate drivers and improve attitudes, rather than simply defaulting to the position that responsibility for the welfare of cyclists is solely with them.



I had this discussion on another board recently and someone replied that cyclists deserve to be knocked off their bikes, because they are always jumping red lights; there's a long way to go!

If you are gormless enough to go through a red light, as I have observed many cyclists do, then you will inevitably suffer the consequences of your cretinous actions.



Plastic helmet versus a Leeds taxi driver, who as a breed appear to treat traffic lights as an inconvenience anyway, is not a fair contest!

or stop jumping lights, riding two abreast, and whilst you're at it, cycle at the speed limit.

Well argues - I am suitably chastened.

Fair enough - you comment agreeing with the OP made me think otherwise.



I don't disagree with much of that TBH, although there are a minority of cyclists that don't help themselves or the image of cyclists as a whole. While I drive as part of my job I like to walk as much as possible when at home. I've lost count of the number of times I've nearly been mowed down on a crossing by a cyclist who doesn't think that red lights apply to bikes.

Just to p1ss on two of your chips...



[iHighway Code rule 66

You should



* never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

[/i



From[urlhttp://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069837[/url



and have you ever tried to cycle at the speed limit ?



I'll take your comment both ways, you either mean that cyclists are too slow - have you ever tried to ride at 30mph - or cyclists ride at more than the speed limit - have you ever tried to ride at 30mph ???



I managed 38mph once coming down the 2 mile long hill into Helmsley, very nearly, or maybe even did, shat myself.

Funnily enough Direct Line did a survey of motorists and found that 5+ MILLION ran red lights EVERY MONTH....go figure who are the greater pest on the roads regarding safety.

As for helmets, waste of time except for very small children as they are only tested for prevention of cuts and bruising at best and can increase chances of an accident and even cause worse injuries at worst.