Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:02 am  

A-Fire-Inside wrote:

That Eamonn McManus fellow over the hill is not much of a business man then is he?

Sal Paradise wrote:

So did Gareth Ellis - didn't see you spewing out this bile at the time?

You never know when your paths might cross again - no need to create enemies needlessly - basic business!!

Graham is, and Ellis was, integral to the teams success. Burgess isn't.

Why are people so adamant to try and run the clubs affairs for them!? Just support the team and leave them to get on with what they think is best. If it turns out to be a mistake, or you strongly disagree with something they've done, then just don't buy a ticket next year. Simple.

I think people are forgetting that we're talking about LUKE Burgess here. Yes, his form has been OK, and he's been one of the best of a very bad lot, but it's LUKE BURGESS. If we're ever in a WCC against the Bunnies and Luke Burgess is the difference between us winning or losing I'll eat my hat. He won't even be bloody playing never mind making any difference!

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:16 am  

[quote]what message does this send out to other NRL players, why would they come here?[quote="Sal Paradise"]

I suppose it wouldn't really matter to a top class player, but it says to any one coming for a bit of an easy ride that they aren't getting it!

I do think the factors over family and uprooting half way around the world are a decision made by Cross when he signed, if he doesn't follow through with commited performances that cement him a position in the team he takes some responsibility. Although, with the selection process appearing to be a bit of a raffle in the bar after training, it's possible he hasn't really had chance to adjust and get stuck in.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:19 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

As an employer you have a duty of care to your employees - these are young immature people in a unique working environment. If you look at the performances of some our props that have been selected before Burgess it could be seen as constructive dismissal. Given the relative quality of their performances Burgess has every right to a reasoned explanation as to why the likes of Kirke/Bailey/Kylie are getting selected before him - and he has every justification to be agreived.

On Cross - his treatment is simply embarassing for a top club. You cannot sign someone on a 3 year contract, fly them and their family half way round the world and then after 3 months discard them. He hasn't done a Wendall or a Mullins or behaved in any way that doesn't bring credit to the club. This is bad for business - what message does this send out to other NRL players, why would they come here?

I expect the likes of Kylie and Peacock to get a contract extension - this is simply madness.

This is yet another example of CEO who looks increasingly out of his depth - the shambles that is the RU, the scaling back of the southstand, falling crowds and a team in free fall!! It is time for change at the top.

Excellent post.

The bigger picture is the message this shambles is sending out far and wide, not just to players in the NRL, but also possible targets within super-league, current rhinos players including the academy lads.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:20 am  

Remarkable_Rhinos wrote:

Graham is, and Ellis was, integral to the teams success. Burgess isn't.

Why are people so adamant to try and run the clubs affairs for them!? Just support the team and leave them to get on with what they think is best. If it turns out to be a mistake, or you strongly disagree with something they've done, then just don't buy a ticket next year. Simple.

I think people are forgetting that we're talking about LUKE Burgess here. Yes, his form has been OK, and he's been one of the best of a very bad lot, but it's LUKE BURGESS. If we're ever in a WCC against the Bunnies and Luke Burgess is the difference between us winning or losing I'll eat my hat. He won't even be bloody playing never mind making any difference!

The difference is the team isn't successful is it - it is getting spanked by the better sides, this is a side in free fall.

If we take your view we might as well not have a forum - you might want to kneel, bow and grovel everytime GH walks by, I don't - simples!!

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:37 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The difference is the team isn't successful is it - it is getting spanked by the better sides, this is a side in free fall.

If we take your view we might as well not have a forum - you might want to kneel, bow and grovel everytime GH walks by, I don't - simples!!

It's not that I want to kneel, bow & grovel. It's that I want to spend my money on things that I derive pleasure from. It's a difficult concept to grasp I know but you do know that supporting a team is optional don't you? I don't know about you but I don't really want to spend well over £1000 per year just to constantly moan and criticise something.

What you describe as "kneeling, bowing and grovelling" I describe as supporting the decisions of a club that I'm CHOOSING TO PAY to support. If you want to work hard all week to buy tickets for games, then spend all weekend angry about it, who's the mug?

It's nice to win, of course, but win or lose I'm determined to enjoy supporting Leeds. The day I don't enjoy it, and the day that it is making me as angry as it seems to make some of you, is the day I'll stop paying my hard earned cash and spending my valuable time doing it.

Life is too short mate, either get on board and enjoy the ride, or don't buy a ticket.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:42 am  

Sal ,I can see the point to most of your post but to say the club is in free-fall is way OTT and this CEO is far from out of his depth.
Cross signed a 2 yr deal under "Bluey" that coach left and unfortunately it's not worked out.
As for Burgess yes he can go and ask why he isn't selected and to be fair he has a very valid point going by his early season form BUT it's how you react to these calls that make the difference and Burgess' toys out of pram approach and stomping feet isn't the way ANY Pro sports man should react imo.
As for "bad for business" not at all look at Robbie Mears departure he was scathing about the club and that did no harm at all.
Players come and go all the time whether voluntry or otherwise it's a fact of life in sport and whilst it is dissapointing re-Burgess he made clear he was off and Cross simply wasn't this coaches choice.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:10 am  

rhinoms wrote:

Sal ,I can see the point to most of your post but to say the club is in free-fall is way OTT and this CEO is far from out of his depth.
Cross signed a 2 yr deal under "Bluey" that coach left and unfortunately it's not worked out.
As for Burgess yes he can go and ask why he isn't selected and to be fair he has a very valid point going by his early season form BUT it's how you react to these calls that make the difference and Burgess' toys out of pram approach and stomping feet isn't the way ANY Pro sports man should react imo.
As for "bad for business" not at all look at Robbie Mears departure he was scathing about the club and that did no harm at all.
Players come and go all the time whether voluntry or otherwise it's a fact of life in sport and whilst it is dissapointing re-Burgess he made clear he was off and Cross simply wasn't this coaches choice.

We must agree to differ - champions to also rans in 2 years I would call freefall what would you call it?

As for RU - would you say GH has made a huge success of that too?

Crowds are falling - does that suggest Hetherington is doing a top job?

We don't know how Burgess has reacted - the rumour I hear is he was offered a new contract after 2 days he hadn't signed and the club then said "His heart wasn't in it" - maybe this is what they call disappointing? None of us have details of what was offered so we are not in a position to say whether the contract was generous or an insult?

The only person who signs players is Hetherington not the coach - IMO Cross has hardly been given a chance to show what he can do, 10 games is hardly adequate - he has been treated appallingly. As far as I can see he produced on the pitch exactly what was expected and what he had shown at his other clubs. If that wasn't what Hetherington wanted why did he sign him? - he was never suddenly going to metamophisise into Matt Scott. If the team was top of the table and the forwards dominanting I could see a point for him being unable to break into the team - we both know that is not the case. Could he possible offer less than the props we have?

The cap is in the NRL is going up so it will become increasingly difficult to get the better players - like us when we are changing jobs they are interested in moving to an employer with the correct culture. Instances such as Cross will not help.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:12 am  

rhinoms wrote:

Sal ,I can see the point to most of your post but to say the club is in free-fall is way OTT and this CEO is far from out of his depth.
Cross signed a 2 yr deal under "Bluey" that coach left and unfortunately it's not worked out.
As for Burgess yes he can go and ask why he isn't selected and to be fair he has a very valid point going by his early season form BUT it's how you react to these calls that make the difference and Burgess' toys out of pram approach and stomping feet isn't the way ANY Pro sports man should react imo.
As for "bad for business" not at all look at Robbie Mears departure he was scathing about the club and that did no harm at all.
Players come and go all the time whether voluntry or otherwise it's a fact of life in sport and whilst it is dissapointing re-Burgess he made clear he was off and Cross simply wasn't this coaches choice.

Best and totally dominant, to a debatable 5th best in two years is a pretty big drop. I think what Sal was getting at, is without addressing this problem quickly that fall is going to keep gaining momentum.

Your comment about GH is not correct. Look at our sister club, then look at us. Not that I give a 5h1t about union, but there is a lot of displeasure with that lot at the moment at the way GH has handled the club, most notably recruitment and coaching. It kind of rings a bell when you look at the Rhinos for the last 18 months also. A serious "taking the eye off the ball" has happened with GH over the last couple of years, and he has a lot of ground to make up.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:18 am  

Remarkable_Rhinos wrote:

It's not that I want to kneel, bow & grovel. It's that I want to spend my money on things that I derive pleasure from. It's a difficult concept to grasp I know but you do know that supporting a team is optional don't you? I don't know about you but I don't really want to spend well over £1000 per year just to constantly moan and criticise something.

What you describe as "kneeling, bowing and grovelling" I describe as supporting the decisions of a club that I'm CHOOSING TO PAY to support. If you want to work hard all week to buy tickets for games, then spend all weekend angry about it, who's the mug?

It's nice to win, of course, but win or lose I'm determined to enjoy supporting Leeds. The day I don't enjoy it, and the day that it is making me as angry as it seems to make some of you, is the day I'll stop paying my hard earned cash and spending my valuable time doing it.

Life is too short mate, either get on board and enjoy the ride, or don't buy a ticket.

Alternatively rather than just three bags full you can have an input - just because you pay your money doesn't mean you should just accept what is going on. Walking away isn't the only way to get the message across, neither is total obsequiousness as you suggest. Any supporter who just accepts that the board gets everything correct isn't a supporter in my view they are follower - big difference.

As I said earlier why bother with a forum - everything is rosy - the board are beyond critic.

Re: Cross & Burgess... Get us out of here : Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:29 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Alternatively rather than just three bags full you can have an input - just because you pay your money doesn't mean you should just accept what is going on. Walking away isn't the only way to get the message across, neither is total obsequiousness as you suggest. Any supporter who just accepts that the board gets everything correct isn't a supporter in my view they are follower - big difference.

As I said earlier why bother with a forum - everything is rosy - the board are beyond critic.

I have never said that the board get everything correct. Obviously they don't. They're not beyond critique. What I'm saying is there's no point getting angry about it, or trying to change it retrospectively. You can criticise them all you like if it makes you happy. Whatever floats your boat. What I'm saying is I don't understand why you'd want to pay money to moan, critique, complain, belittle, second guess, disagree and just generally grumble about something. I'm not stopping you doing it, I'm just saying I don't understand why you bother. Each to their own. I'm onto my 14 (possibly 15th?!) season ticket in a row now, so I'm clearly a loyal supporter, what I'm saying is as much as I love Leeds, I'm not going to give myself a heart attack over decisions that they may or may not get wrong.

As to why bother with a forum... it's a place to discuss all things Leeds, and O/T subjects with people whom you share a common interest with. Although you're right, I sometimes wonder why I do bother.

The glass is half full mate... Sunny side up... Always look on the bright side of life, de dum, de dum de dum de dum... Chin up... Smile, it confuses people... Don't worry, be happy...etc etc.